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ritualclarity

Skyrim Special Edition Thoughts

29 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, ritualclarity said:

The rift in the modding community about the paid mod fiasco predated the port to 64 bit engine ;) Porting the game didn't cause this. 

Of course not. I never said it nor did I insinuate it. The 64 bit engine, however, will not undo all of the ill will that was created because of the paid mod fiasco.

1 hour ago, ritualclarity said:

The failure of them not clamping down on the mod theft isn't the result of them porting to a 64bit game engine.

Of course it's not and once again I never said it nor did I insinuate it.

1 hour ago, ritualclarity said:

It is the result of them not understanding the processes of the modding community and not caring about them and instead focusing on them (the assets / mods) as a company would their property.

And they still don't understand the modding community and the to be honest, I don't think they care. This is clearly evident by how Bethesda treated DarkFox and other modders during the Creation Kit closed beta.

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It turns out however that we received very little in the way of communication from Bethesda when it came to technical problems that we had been posting about. The only responses we had been receiving were in regards to anything PR related and none of the developers were really there to help support the modders. It would have made sense for them to be providing technical support to better help the creators of some of the best modding tools out there such as NifSkope, BSAopt, xEDIT just to name a few. They didn't provide any of the information we needed though.

What Bethesda did provide is a post asking us if we could get some mods uploaded and working for the release of the game, so that they had plenty on there for console users to download when they re-purchase the game at full retail price. This did nothing but to serve my suspicion that the only reason we were invited to the beta is to provide free content for console users to download. Mods are the biggest selling point of SSE and Bethesda wanted to make sure the content would be there.

The thing that finally hit me in the face is when these YouTubers were allowed to release their videos and we were still on lock down until a mere three days prior to release. The very people providing the content for their new game were not being allowed to share anything, while a collection of people who probably haven't touched the game in three or more years could share everything about the game.

So why did they do this? Basically because these YouTubers providing console footage would serve to advertise the game and sell more copies for the consoles. Allowing PC modders to share footage wouldn't really help Bethesda in any way, given that the vast majority of Skyrim players would already be receiving their copies for free anyway, in turn making Bethesda very little money.

Now at the end of all of this, it leaves me feeling like once again, us modders are not being shown or given the respect that we deserve. For the past five years we've been keeping Skyrim alive in our free time which keeps the game popular and has probably even sold them even more copies than they would have otherwise, and although from a marketing point of view this all makes sense, it doesn't make it morally right.

http://www.darkfox127.co.uk/bulletin/no-console-support

 

1 hour ago, ritualclarity said:

They haven't ever done anything to help with the third party script extenders or for that matter much to help with any third party apps. This isn't different from what they have been doing. We shouldn't expect any difference for the port.

They should do different. They want modders to be the content creators yet they provide very little support beyond the Creation Kit.

2 hours ago, ritualclarity said:

Authmoor as ported a good deal of  all the mods he could even before the release. Others have already as well. Most of the hold up is the fact either the mod author has already moved on or left (old mods) or the scripts aren't ready for the porting over of the game. There are a few exceptions for example the SkyUI team. They left well before the port. That was failure on Beths part for introducing the paid modding system without taking into consideration the modding community core values and processes. Same with them not clamping down on mod theft. That isn't the port issue that is another example of Beth not understanding the mod community and how to work with them. Multiple failures on Beth part yes... however most aren't caused by the port. It is their failure to do proper research and understanding their customers.

I don't understand this post and I believe you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm not blaming the 64 bit version for driving modders away, I'm blaming Bethesda. If a modders no longer wants to mod Bethesda games because of all of the drama that comes about because of Bethesda's poor business decisions, they are not going to make any.

2 hours ago, ritualclarity said:

I doubt it will have the same level of enthusiasm as the original had. The original was new and fresh this is just a rework. The modders being bummed about the action of Bethesda over the past couple of years also isn't the result of the port. It is the result of Bethesda constantly doing things without any forethought or understanding of what they are doing and what it will do to the community and their customers.

Of course it isn't the result of the port, it's because of Bethesda. Just because they ported Skyrim to a 64 bit engine doesn't mean that retired modders who are disgruntled with Bethesda are going rush back and release new mods. Will new modders fill the shoes of the ones who left? Maybe. Maybe not.

2 hours ago, ritualclarity said:

The recent actions seem desperate and urgent almost like what I would expect from a company in the death throws before they go bankrupt or get bought out. A company that has lost its way and is trying to satisfy everybody all the time. They have many titles and franchises that they can tap and tallent they can use. There is no reason for this. For example there are those that like the Fallout 3 game and that type. There are those that love the Fallout NV system and such.. no reason that the # releases be one way and the location releases be like the other. One being a vault dweller and the other being a carrier or some other job. Perhaps imagine this.. A raider left for dead trying to recover and ... etc etc. A new avenue. Hell they could create a third one more like Civ where you go and help build up your towns and communities as another community (faction) tries to bring you and your communities down. So many option.. however what isn't' an option is not paying attention to your core loyal fans and giving them something they love.

Bethesda's not desperate, they just don't care. They don't respect their customers (the gamers) or their content creators (the modders). Why? Because not enough of us demand better from them. They know gamers are going to rush out and buy the newest release day one and what ever issue people have will be fixed by modders. This is why they're pushing console mods so hard so they can be even lazier with their games.

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The 64 bit engine, however, will not undo all of the ill will that was created because of the paid mod fiasco.

Ah.... now I see what you were stating.

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And they still don't understand the modding community and the to be honest, I don't think they care. This is clearly evident by how Bethesda treated DarkFox and other modders during the Creation Kit closed beta.

You might be correct about them not caring.. However it might be that they honestly have no clue what the hell they are doing or the effects that they are actually having. They didn't remove the paid for mods until a total stink storm so high and strong reached the very highest in the company. I is so very possible whomever is responsible for the public relations, web page and general consumer communications is a complete moron and they (the higher up / admin) just don't have a clue to how bad they truly are doing. I am sure some there are really curious as to why they aren't getting the GOTY for Fallout 4 and likely blame those reviewers and naysayers and such for the results. (which is likely the reason they tightened down on the review code and only let them out 1 day before.)

However the results are the same. They are failing on all measures in the customers eyes. even those that praise the company has problems with what they are doing. This will continue until they actually come to terms and realize the true damage they are doing and hopefully before it is too late.

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I don't understand this post and I believe you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm not blaming the 64 bit version for driving modders away, I'm blaming Bethesda. If a modders no longer wants to mod Bethesda games because of all of the drama that comes about because of Bethesda's poor business decisions, they are not going to make any.

Ah.. now it makes sense.. to explain.

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I'd argue they've made things worse for Skyrim fans. Porting the game to a 64 bit engine is good but they done more to damage to modding community.

I thought you were more focusing on the port and that the port was damaging the community. :)

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Just because they ported Skyrim to a 64 bit engine doesn't mean that retired modders who are disgruntled with Bethesda are going rush back and release new mods. Will new modders fill the shoes of the ones who left? Maybe. Maybe not.

True.. that remains to be seen. I guess the first hurdle would be the script extender and likely the SkyUI or some similar replacer. Then with the proper tools (BSA, Nif etc) then we likely will get some work on this. Likely this will improve if they can recreate the race tools and other tools needed. Hopefully the new edition of Skyrim will not need to have FNIS on top of all the other tools to be created.

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Bethesda's not desperate, they just don't care. They don't respect their customers (the gamers) or their content creators (the modders). Why? Because not enough of us demand better from them. They know gamers are going to rush out and buy the newest release day one and what ever issue people have will be fixed by modders. This is why they're pushing console mods so hard so they can be even lazier with their games.

Perhaps...Perhaps they just don't care.. however it might also be they calculate the need and basically they don't "need" to do more. Same explanation. People will buy whatever crap they create and love them for it. I see the push into console gaming a bit differently. I see it as an attempt to add to their sales due to mods.. this helps drive their PC sales so it is only natural that they would like to use that for their console sales. If the PC sales tank.. so long as there are console sales # increase to cover the loss.. they aren't loosing anything. This is a revenue stream that they didn't have. A revenue stream that they attempted to get by offering paid for mods which failed. It is just a buisness move to make more money. The lessing of quality and weaker games is also a move to keep more money. I do agree they won't change a thing so long as people rush out to buy their games day one.

Which by the way.. any official release numbers for the new SE?

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2 hours ago, ritualclarity said:

I thought you were more focusing on the port and that the port was damaging the community.

Yeah, I could've been more concise there.

2 hours ago, ritualclarity said:

Which by the way.. any official release numbers for the new SE?

We wont know until the October 2016 NPD Results are announced. If sales are really good I'm sure bethesda will release a statement before then.

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My thoughts are like this. Skyrim has been a trial an error since the get go. One moment I'm beginning to like the game, but then I'm constantly reminded why I despise it because how unstable it is. I cannot enjoy the mods I want to because I end up having to disable half my load order and I cannot ever experience the game how I want. Modding on Skyrim is just not fun for me. It's because of Bethesda and Skyrim why I opted out of ever buying their products again. I just won't anymore. I personally feel like they have very very little passion, integrity and commitment to their products and fans. They seem deeply/heavily focused on what matters most to them, which is money.

I wager that SSE will become unstable once SKSE is out and those heavily scripted mods start to pour in. I'm too skeptical and cynical just to believe that Bethesda will ever get it right. And it leaves me with mixed feelings about SSE. A part of me wants to jump on it and see if all the things people are bragging about it are true, and the other part of me reminds me of what I already went through and investing in a new GPU just to run it, only to end up having the very same experience I already do with Skyrim is not worth it.

There's no doubt at some point I will play it because eventually I will invest in building a new PC. All I want, is for a new developing company to thrive and expand on modding who knows how to get it right and really is committed to delivering their fans the best experience and really caring about their product. I think many people are waiting for that. It really sucks that Bethesda is the only company right now that offers the most mod support.

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