How arbitrary are Arthmoors complaints about TesSnip and/or ModOrganiser

[mojodajojo]

Not sure where to put this topic as it's kind of a generalized Beth thing. 

I admit I've butchered some mods I've made (way past fixing with my limited knowhow) with TesSnip.   Honestly, though I'm a moron and that's user end stupidity.  I've seen Arthmoor make some blanket statements about using it.  I've also seen him post about Mod Organiser (or is it Organizer Eff Brits and Yanks and their z/s stuff) in a most negative light. 

In my experience Mod Organiser helped me run Skyrim with many mods in a much more functional way before I acquired a computer that was capable of doing so.  Now, I like Arthmoor (or at least his online presence) much in the same way that I like Kendo as he is blunt, interesting and smart (probably just pissed off Kendo there.)  I want opinions from smarter folks than me about his opinions.  Are they time-saver statements so that he doesn't have to take into account more variables when troubleshooting his mods, or are they valid blanket statements.  Please don't ask me to go back and link crap from Nexus, either.  They may or may not be there, but I don't want to draw attention to myself from moderators on the big N anymore than need be.  If this topic is out of line, delete it and flog me.

                                                                                                        Live long and prosper.

Edited May 19, 2016 by mojodajojo

[Kendo 2]

*Puts on Moderator hat*

As Arthmoor is not a member (at least under that name) he is not here to defend himself should the need arise.  That being said, no trolling or bashing him please.  Discussions mentioning him are perfectly ligit though.

*Takes off Moderator hat*

I'm not familiar with Arthmoor's opinions on TESSnip.  I use it frequently for my own game's esps along with the other features in FOMM and FNVEdit.  Iv'e never had any issues with it's Sanitize and Cleaning functions, though the results for making esms with it are very dubious at best.  I don't use Mod Organizer.

[mojodajojo]

I fucked up some stuff with snip badly.  I know why now, (I think.) 

 

But, I've ran into that MergePlugins tool recently.  God knows If I'm using it right, but it's amazing if I am.  It just auto does stuff I would have had to correct by hand before and it checks for errors like NVEdit before and after saving me a few clicks.

His crap about Mod Organiser I suspect is just laziness, though.  He refused to support or talk to anyone using it and using his mods, and imo it makes your game a million times more playable in Skyrim.  However, it requires some bjorking around with shit cause you can't have it in your data folder and mod that same folder while using certain mods.  Ironically mostly mods, he'd never admit to using  

 

Edit: "can't have it in your data folder" is inaccurate, but I'm too lazy too expound.

Edited May 19, 2016 by mojodajojo

[ritualclarity]

I suspect it is more opinion and/or lack of understanding of MO features. So far everything I have seen can be done with MO if done correctly. That being said it is completely up to him to support the manager or not with his tools. I am also not experienced or knowledgeable enough to properly review his statements. I believe I have come across videos that shows how to do this and I believe it was in MO. Check on line for various resources to be sure you are doing it correctly with MO.

As a general rule I ignore any comments that bash mod managers in general because for the most part it is fanboy actions. I am using NMM for Fallout 4 because for me MO isn't ready for that game. I use MO for the rest of the games (Fallout 3/NV/Skyrim) and likely will look into using OBMM / Wyrebash for Oblivion if I ever go back to that game.

If indeed there is issues with MO then you might be able to run NMM for the tools and get them to work the way you need them then go back and collect the results and shut down NMM and then import the new ESP into MO with the correct assets. Might be a bit more work but it might make the task easier if you are having problems with MO. I haven't used any of those tools yet so I can't be sure.

[Kendo 2]

Something else to consider is 'the source'.  Arthmoor loves Nexus and Nexus launched a smear campaign against MO when the site was compromised.  Dark0ne outright blamed MO for the viruses downloaded on his site but MO was one of several uploads contaminated.  That fact was omitted, but the other mods weren't in direct competition with NMM either.

Being how Nexus is and how some mod authors become once they get popular there, their opinions become solid Nexus gold if they support the site's agenda or make it look good.  A dose of reality and some humility would go a long way towards people not automatically blowing them off when the post their opinions.

[mojodajojo]

The learning curve with MO is stupid high, but I never did get it to work properly with some parts of sexlab.  I have to switch some things in and out of my data folder when editing/creating sexlab mods via the use of prelabled folders I keep around for that very reason (in order to keep less stuff in my data folder not to get the game to play properly with Sexlab.)  Like, so many things, though, I might be doing that the hard way for no good reason.

[ritualclarity]

There are support threads for this on both Loverslab (for sexlab questions) and STEPS for more general questions. I am sure a few selected questions should get you up and running. If you can handle the GECK and get mods done you should more than be able to handle MO.

[Karma199696]

i don't know Arthmoor enough to say anything about him and probably wouldn't anyway...  even if i'm not using any of his mods, whoever creates and shares mods for free as my respects.

but in my opinion MO is way better then NMM to use for playing Skyrim with a lot of mods...  i have downloaded some 350 mods for Sk, but since i can't use all of them, every time i start a new game i decide which ones i want to use that time...  with MO is really easy, i only have to check/uncheck boxes and never get any issue, while when i used NMM it was a nightmare !!  i always ended up missing some texture/meshes that had been overwritten by one of the mods that i had later removed, so i had to figure out which were the overwritten mods and reinstall them...  so, being ready for starting a new game might require several hour against the few minutes i need now that i use MO...  also, a lot of people say that MO is more difficult to use then NMM, but if i could learn to use it, anybody can !!   

[ritualclarity]

NMM now has profiles that will allow you to change out the game and play a different game / character and it will automatically unclick on the mods that is needed to set up the game for you. I use MO for Fallout and Skyrim but I use NMM for Fallout 4 only. So far it works like a charm and only had a slight problem once that required me to go back and reactivate mods. I did some out of order stopped the game and just went back and selected the mods needed to be used (overwrite) and reinstalled them and all was good. Took about 15 minutes of my time. Currently MO2 isn't up to the level that I want it to be to use if for Fallout 4.

[Karma199696]

6 hours ago, ritualclarity said:

NMM now has profiles that will allow you to change out the game and play a different game / character and it will automatically unclick on the mods that is needed to set up the game for you. I use MO for Fallout and Skyrim but I use NMM for Fallout 4 only. So far it works like a charm and only had a slight problem once that required me to go back and reactivate mods. I did some out of order stopped the game and just went back and selected the mods needed to be used (overwrite) and reinstalled them and all was good. Took about 15 minutes of my time. Currently MO2 isn't up to the level that I want it to be to use if for Fallout 4.

i'm not playing FO4, so i don't know anything about its mod managers...  but for Skyrim, NMM profiles are a recent feature, it hadn't them when i started adding mods to my game two years ago...  also consider that at the time i didn't actually understand anything about textures, meshes and all that comes with mods...  i just downloaded any mod i liked and threw it into my game with NMM, answering quite randomly to the overwriting requests...  so i never actually knew what had overwritten what...  and NMM didn't remember it very well either now may be different, but the profiles where introduced just after i had reinstalled everything to switch from NMM to MO (a week-end of intensive work) and didn't want to face another similar work just to try the new function !

[ritualclarity]

MO allows you to see the conflicts (overwrites) at a glance.

[Karma199696]

On 24/5/2016 at 10:51 PM, ritualclarity said:

MO allows you to see the conflicts (overwrites) at a glance.

yes, and that too was very useful to avoid messing things up any time i added/removed/update mods