mod organizer Mod Organizer - Discussion of Tannin Joining the NMM Team

[Guest]

I have to say this: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12905/? = bribery. Tannin is a sell out. Nothing more to say. Definitely bad news, not good news.

Dark0ne literally bought out competition. And hired one man to do what a team of programmers couldn't do in the last 6 years of developing NMM.

 

Moved to new thread. Not support question more discussion question. 

-RC

[ritualclarity]

You have real points there... however I cannot blame a person for desiring a paycheck for the work that he did. He was a genius in developing MO and that is very rare. He did this in his spare time and was faster in development than the entire previous NMM team was to fix bugs. He is a professional programmer and it shows.

Now how he went about getting paid... that is sad. I would have hopped that he would have used his fame and his product to open a patron account with all his fans he might have gotten the needed funds and not "sold out" to Nexus. At least if he did so and advertised it (if he did actually do this) then move to NMM .. well then it was to get properly paid for his hard work.

I truly believe if the modding communities that MO covers knew his frustrations and difficulties they would have been willing to help support him to be able to continue to build the awesome tools that he has. Then he would have been his own man and not have to report to anyone and still be able to keep the lights on.

Now this is Tannin. The man that created MO. He has loads of skills. It remains to be see if he can pull off a MO type Nexus Mod Manager like indicated in that article. I highly doubt it because too much is being expected for too little time (I am sure he is now under pressure to perform and produce a product likely in 3 months or so) However it is Tannin and hopefully this isn't the case and a truly awesome manager can be created that can cover all the old games (Oblivion from Steam which MO didn't support) Fallout, Skyrim and the 64bit editions of the Fallout and Skyrim.

Personally I am not going to grab my pichfork and torch and hunt him down... yet... I will give someone with that skill the time to prove one way or the other what is the results of this decision before I do.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, ritualclarity said:

You have real points there... however I cannot blame a person for desiring a paycheck for the work that he did. He was a genius in developing MO and that is very rare. He did this in his spare time and was faster in development than the entire previous NMM team was to fix bugs. He is a professional programmer and it shows.

Now how he went about getting paid... that is sad. I would have hopped that he would have used his fame and his product to open a patron account with all his fans he might have gotten the needed funds and not "sold out" to Nexus. At least if he did so and advertised it (if he did actually do this) then move to NMM .. well then it was to get properly paid for his hard work.

I truly believe if the modding communities that MO covers knew his frustrations and difficulties they would have been willing to help support him to be able to continue to build the awesome tools that he has. Then he would have been his own man and not have to report to anyone and still be able to keep the lights on.

Now this is Tannin. The man that created MO. He has loads of skills. It remains to be see if he can pull off a MO type Nexus Mod Manager like indicated in that article. I highly doubt it because too much is being expected for too little time (I am sure he is now under pressure to perform and produce a product likely in 3 months or so) However it is Tannin and hopefully this isn't the case and a truly awesome manager can be created that can cover all the old games (Oblivion from Steam which MO didn't support) Fallout, Skyrim and the 64bit editions of the Fallout and Skyrim.

Personally I am not going to grab my pichfork and torch and hunt him down... yet... I will give someone with that skill the time to prove one way or the other what is the results of this decision before I do.

This is exactly what I thought, too. I think if he would of voiced out to the mod community about his situation, people would of been more than happy to support his patreon as a form of buying Mod Organizer or just donate what ever they want. I know I would, because Mod Organizer is just amazing and I hate to see it wither and diminish and become as .has been'.

But now the problem is this AIO mod manager to rule them all. I was never fond of NMM and MO suited me just fine. I'll never stop using the old MO for the current Skyrim. But if Skyrim Remaster ever gets great mod support, I really hate that I have to go back to using a standard mod manager. So as I said on LL, I hope that someone takes up on MO like prideslayer did with FOMM. There's programmers out there. Maybe one who helped out Tannin will vouch in on it. Just really hate to see MO disappear. It's just too good of a mod manager to die out like that.

But it looks like this is all set in stone, so hoping someone will continue working on MO.

[ritualclarity]

The problem with the "AIO" approach is each game is so different. Have you tried to mod Witcher or Mass Effect. Even Sims 4 is vastly different. Having "one" mod manager for all those games is going to make it so very bloated. I can't see it being anything other than that. The great thing about OBBM, FOMM and MO historically in my opinion is they were tools for the games they supported. OBBM for Oblivion, FOMM for the Fallout 3 and NV (being essentially the same game) and MO for Skyrim.. and later working quite well after some fixes for Fallout 3 and NV (not well for Oblivion at least not the Steam version) However those games are so very close. The same engine with changes made for new features. Hell chances are if Fallout 4 didn't go to 64 bit it would still be compatible or at least be easy to make compatible. 

The difference and hardship Tannin had going from the "MO 32bit" to "MO 64 bit" was massive and hard for him to get functional. This is from someone that was churning out versions almost faster than I could download them and use them. This is from the .. well essentially the same engine with some changes and going 64 bit (which is the biggest change) How is someone going to make an mod manager for all games, keep it simple, light, and not bloated?

I am sure it can be done but it won't be easy and it will not be anything that NMM or MO was in the past. There will have to be compromises and the system before with NMM and MO worked well for the modding community. People had choices.

Hopefully someone will come along and work on the MO 2 or at least create an other option when the new NMM gets released to give options. Lord knows it will likely be in great demand as there will be people that will not use anything from Nexus regardless of how great it is.

[Guest]

Yep, I agree with this. Someone on Nexus even argued that NMM was better because it supports more games. Well, duh! Nexus has over 50 games that it supports for mods, many which are not even making noise. It's logical for NMM to have many of these games supported for NMM. Tannin probably only cares about TES and Fallout so it may be because of that why it only supports Fallout 3, NV, Oblivion and Skyrim. It could also be because he doesn't own those other games or he simply doesn't want to waist the energy doing so, or there just isn't enough mod support to even bother wasting the time and energy to make it compatible with those games.

Just because NMM supports so many games vs MO and the four I mentioned doesn't necessarily mean it's superior over MO. It's what it does different that makes it superior. Can't hold Tannin accountable for that. He's only one man. If someone who mods Witcher 3 wants a MO and Tannin isn't willing to do it, they should do it or wait for someone to do it, not blame Tannin because he doesn't want to do it. He's not obligated to do so. But I think it's more to do with how modding Bethesda games are just far more superior to any other games when it comes to the amount of mods and the capability modding these games which gave Tannin an advantage to implement all the features he has into MO.

Tannin doesn't run a Mod site, Dark0ne does, and it makes complete sense to try and make a mod manager that gives you access to the games it supports for mods. Though, as you mentioned, not all games function the same Not every game packs their assets behind a .BSA. I used to mod FFXI Online and meshes, textures and animations were all packed into .dat files. Required a special tool to open the .dat file and repack it for it to work because you can't run loose files with MMO. I don't know now since I haven't been into MMO since late 2012, but I doubt it. But yeah, each developer uses their own file formatting. Creating this AIO mod manager that does it all is not good.

I never liked NMM. I was content with FOMM for Fallout 3 and NV and went from TES Mod Manager on Skyrim to Mod Organizer. But I can understand why people preferred NMM over MO. For some it is a learning curve. For those like us who've been modding games for a long time, everything becomes familiar very quickly. NMM and MO is not meant for everyone and it even though there have been conflicts with each other about it, heck I know, I've always been to provoke NNM users and rub in their face how MO is better, it has always been best just to leave them each on their own and go their separate ways. I think this is a really bad idea, because MO users are going to have expectations on it being mostly like MO and NMM users are going to have expectations on it being much more like NMM. Few in between. But then you have those who simply don't like the virtual file structure and want the plain old NMM.

I think it's going to stress Tannin out, so I still do think it would of been easier to reach out to the mod community who follows MO and being sincere. It would of never hurt to try. Worst case would be no one would support his patreon. Or very few do. But maybe it would of served as some kind of enthusiasm to continue working on MO2. Maybe more people in time would of supported him. I think so.

[ritualclarity]

Once I understood what MO was ... I was hooked. It was the virtual file system of each mod (or folder) that hooked me.

Essentially I could "manually install" any and all mods and files and do all manner of stuff.. yet... had at a simple click I could have it removed. No more deleting all the loose files and named BSAs etc. Cleaning up my install and then having to reinstall all the mods manually again. I liked the profile but could live without it. Most of the other features I can live without it. It is the virtual install that made me stand up and notice MO the first time.

I need to check and see if WyreBash can handle Fallout 4 files as good as NMM can currently. If someone wants to talk about a manager that can handle multiple games... well that is one that can already.

[Guest]

I'm more than likely just not going to care about Skyrim x64 for a while. It's a far distance away before it would even par with Skyrim x32 so during that time, I won't be missing out on much. Taken into account their lack of development with CK on FO4 still in beta. Maybe by then, those few years later someone would already have picked up MO and update it. If not, not going back to manual installation and definitely not going to use NMM no matter how close it may be to MO. I'm not going to be tied to it just because Tannin decided to take up on the task. If anything, I think MO is far superior and deserved to be crowned as the NMM. But that's not something D0 ever wanted. He's enjoying that MO is no longer being developed by Tannin. And I'm not so worried about the Nexus bots. They're like Chavistas, everything Maduro says, they applause.

[ritualclarity]

You have a point with the time it might take for Skyrim SE to get up to speed with the original one.