The fallout from Fallout 4 (Discussion Thread)

[Doublezero]

 Mod are coming to the PS4 after all. Unfortunately...

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Mod makers can't upload external assets

"Mod support will come to Skyrim first," Bethesda explained today in a blog post. "We and Sony have worked hard to make this possible. Mods on PlayStation 4 will allow you to modify and create your own content by using our Creation Kit available here. You will not be able to upload external assets with your PlayStation 4 mods, but you will be able to use any assets that come with the game, as most mods do. By creating a Bethesda.net account, you'll be able to browse and try mods right from within the game."

https://www.destructoid.com/skyrim-and-fallout-4-will-get-mods-on-ps4-but-there-s-a-catch-391343.phtml

 

[ritualclarity]

8 hours ago, Doublezero said:

 Mod are coming to the PS4 after all. Unfortunately...

 

So this means no new content including anything that replaces the content like upgraded textures and meshes, correct. You have to use only what was provided by Besthesda so basically can only create an esp like a follower but only with the default face, armors, and dialogue (voiced)

[Doublezero]

Sony uses a proprietary audio and texture format, that's why modders can't use external assets. People involved in the PS4 beta have been saying this for a while.

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• Limited space. 900MB total for all mods installed. It's less than half of what's on Xbox and last I heard they still plan to make Xbox's mod storage limit bigger in the future.

• Audio. PS4 uses a proprietary format that the release version of the CK can't compile. Bethesda needed Sony to hook them up with tools to work with that format, permission to release what they used, or permission to make it so the CK could save audio in that format.

• Texture format. Again, PS4 uses a proprietary format for textures. Sony restricted texture distribution to the PC format. PS4/Fallout 4 on PS4 is not optimized to use the standard PC format, so it ate too much memory and diminished performance. Once again, Bethesda needed Sony to either hook them up with tools or agree to let them release what they used to save their textures in the PS4 format to the public.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/51xk00/ps4_mod_update/?st=isx1ui4h&sh=684bdec5

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One issue was the a mod file size limit of 900MB, as opposed to Xbox One’s 2GB. Another issue was memory usage and game performance using PC textures. Bethesda was working with Sony to create “optimal texture exporting support in a future update,” and was also working with Sony on an issue where mod sound files weren’t supported due to the console’s use of a proprietary audio format.

https://www.vg247.com/2016/09/09/fallout-4-mod-support-nixed-because-sony-wont-approve-user-mods-the-way-they-should-work/

I don't understand Bethesda here. They've developed games on the PS4 and they know Sony uses proprietary audio and texture. The first thing Bethesda should've ironed out with Sony was the use of the audio and texture in mods.

[Guest]

I still think that's pretty shitty. Mod limitation more than what it already is for console. Nothing could ever convince me two switch from PC to a console. I guess on the bright side is that they are going to get mods after all.

[ritualclarity]

5 hours ago, Doublezero said:

Sony uses a proprietary audio and texture format, that's why modders can't use external assets. People involved in the PS4 beta have been saying this for a while.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/51xk00/ps4_mod_update/?st=isx1ui4h&sh=684bdec5

https://www.vg247.com/2016/09/09/fallout-4-mod-support-nixed-because-sony-wont-approve-user-mods-the-way-they-should-work/

I don't understand Bethesda here. They've developed games on the PS4 and they know Sony uses proprietary audio and texture. The first thing Bethesda should've ironed out with Sony was the use of the audio and texture in mods.

Someone will try to crack that propriety format soon now.

[Kendo 2]

Just gonna leave this here.

 

[ritualclarity]

39 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

Just gonna leave this here.

 

 

I really liked this video.

[Guest]

Rags is awesome. Always putting fanboys and console peasants in their place.

[Kendo 2]

4 hours ago, endgameaddiction said:

Rags is awesome. Always putting fanboys and console peasants in their place.

Rags is almost always spot-on.  I don't care if he's a game trolling shit-lord.  I am too. 

 But I'm kinda a console peasant too now.  I bought a 1 terabyte XBoxOne S and a 24" 4k TV a few weeks ago.  After FO4 I see no reason to continuously upgrade my PC for the sake of modding or playing modded games.  That's Bethesda's territory and I'm 95% satiation with their bullshit anyway.  The upcoming games I'm interested in aren't being made by Bethesda and they will be on console.  Cyberpunk 2077 and ME Andromeda are calling my name. 

[Guest]

That's pretty much the position I'm in myself. I don't see the point of upgrading hardware just for a Bethesda game. Now it would be worthwhile if it wasn't for their half broken games. I could of easily skipped the main story of Fallout 4 and just focus on the rest if it wasn't for them stripping away the good things that made Fallout 3 and New Vegas good, and in turn giving us a voiced character with a shitty dialogue system and choices. I wasn't all that interesting in the war between NCR and Legion in New Vegas and happily ignored it and mostly did my own thing. I don't remember if Mr House quests were part of the NCR and Legion story, but I got to about the 3rd Mr. House quest before I lost interest.

What makes Fallout 4 so bad to me is that it's just a wannabe Mass Effect/Farcry game. I appreciated Fallout for it being its own thing, and Fallout 4 just doesn't seem like a Fallout game to me. I feel like in their minds they think that ME, Farcry and all these other AAA games with a voiced protagonist are the only way to go. If they give the protagonist a voice in TES6, that's going to suck. Think the outcry on Fallout 4 was bad? If they streamline TES6 as bad as Fallout 4, it's going to be far worse of a shit fest.

Also, what is sad is that Bethesda divided the mod community more than it could have ever been. Paid mods, console mod thievery, Fallout 4 and SSE, they all have created more of a separation. I doubt Bethesda can do anything to mend the wounds. Simply because they don't know anything about the mod community as much as they don't know anything about Fallout's lore, or even RPG at this point. They are a broken company and has dragged the mod community down with it.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Guest

[ritualclarity]

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I don't remember if Mr House quests were part of the NCR and Legion story, but I got to about the 3rd Mr. House quest before I lost interest.

For a point you are working all the factions, much like what you do for Fallout 4.

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What makes Fallout 4 so bad to me is that it's just a wannabe Mass Effect/Farcry game. I appreciated Fallout for it being its own thing, and Fallout 4 just doesn't seem like a Fallout game to me. I feel like in their minds they think that ME, Farcry and all these other AAA games with a voiced protagonist are the only way to go.

 

Instead of sticking with the formula that was very successful.

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Also, what is sad is that Bethesda divided the mod community more than it could have ever been. Paid mods, console mod thievery, Fallout 4 and SSE, they all have created more of a separation.

By not understanding the modding community that they helped create with their games.

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I doubt Bethesda can do anything to mend the wounds.

They can. They can by going back to the tried and true formula with heavy RPG and deep fully developed characters with loads of interesting quest and side quest. Then add a few ideas that might work. Like the weapon and armor crafting that was generally quite well received

They aren't stupid. They know their formula. They know what was successful in the past and what is needed to create another Oblivion/Morrowwind Fallout 3 game. They chose to try to "grow" and expand that franchise. Great on paper however if not properly executed will result in horrible failure. The failure they call Fallout 4.   The

[ritualclarity]

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They are a broken company and has dragged the mod community down with it.

Fuck.. sorry for the double post. For some dam reason it wouldn't let me create a new paragraph. Guess the forum software hates Fallout 4 as well

Anyway I doubt they are broken. I believe it is more greed that is causing them to make these stupid decisions. They are trying to appeal to more fans buy adding all sorts of shit to the game in hopes to get more sales. Currently it is working however I hope they understand that will piss off the hard core fans and those are the ones that buy a dam pre-release or some stupid pip boy gimmick (sorry for anyone that got that. NOt directed at you being stupid :))

Lets understand the situation. Todd Howard I believe, worked on the previous games (Oblivion I think) and has been there all these years. He knows the fans, he knows what they want. They are choosing to do this. Which really should piss off people even more. This isn't some indy game developer or new person to the industry. This is a seasoned gaming company with 20+ years experience with GOTY winning games. They know better and thought they could shove shit down the throats of their fans and get more fans in the process. They failed. If they continue they will destroy what fan base they had. Lets face it if they create another game worthy of the fan love and admiration and GOTY worthy winner... their fans can forgive them. Many will and accept that it was an error and they learned from it. If they wait until they released 1, 2, 3 more games that are as much pieces of shit in relation to what is expected by their fan base. The fan base that will pre-purchase and pretty much pay whatever to get the games to support the company not some 12 year old punk that has some $$$ and don't have another game to buy at this time and is board. They will not likely win back their fan base... at all. 

[ritualclarity]

18 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

Rags is almost always spot-on.  I don't care if he's a game trolling shit-lord.  I am too. 

 But I'm kinda a console peasant too now.  I bought a 1 terabyte XBoxOne S and a 24" 4k TV a few weeks ago.  After FO4 I see no reason to continuously upgrade my PC for the sake of modding or playing modded games.  That's Bethesda's territory and I'm 95% satiation with their bullshit anyway.  The upcoming games I'm interested in aren't being made by Bethesda and they will be on console.  Cyberpunk 2077 and ME Andromeda are calling my name. 

 

I don't think even Rags would complain about your purchase because you aren't stating it is better than PCs or such. (perhaps he might punk you for the claim not to upgrade the PC instead putting that money into a console as you could have just upgraded the pc instead but.. :))

It makes sense to get a console for some games. Some games are awesome on consoles. You don't get much benefit from playing them from PC. (Mass Effect, Witcher 1,2,3) etc. except perhaps some cheat codes that isn't' available to be used on a console. 

I don't because I would have to do the same. Get the console, TV and games. I really don't have a need for a TV and space for it either. If I want a console I can use my old xbone 360. (actually I have two and perhaps even three... for some reason the replicate. People give them to me lol)

I am interested in ME Andromeda as well.. However I will be dammed if I pre-purchase that game

[Guest]

I don't have anything against console gamers per se, just the ones who have no idea what they are talking about and claim console system is superior over pc for the most part.

What cringes me the most about console systems, is console ports and sharing servers with console gamers on a MMO. Back on FFXI Online, I was hooked on that for 8 years and it bothered me back in 2010-2012 that we still had to deal with outdated graphics, meshes and textures. I was hoping they would revamp the game but in 2012 (and more than likely still today) they probably still have PS2 gamers sharing servers. It's not console gamers themselves, it's these companies that hold us back that bother me. I had heard that they were cutting PS2 from that MMORPG, but I haven't followed up on it. I just want the damn game to be F2P now. It's like 14 years old now and it's still P2P. Actually, looks like they did.

Skyrim's UI is such a mess and I don't think I would of lasted long if it wasn't for SkyUI. Just navigating through it is awful. Then you have the 4 button dispay dialogue for Fallout 4. I'm a keyboard enthusiast and can't stand the controller at all.

[yoyosdt]

Fallout 4 has honestly been the most disappointing game for me in the last two years. Voice protagonist was a huge mistake and the dialogue wheel was an absolute joke. All it has done has driven me back to the classics that are Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

[endgameaddiction]

Screw it. I'll post this here.

Just when I thought I saw every Fallout 4 bash video.

[ritualclarity]

Interesting about some of the things that were removed from the game. I know I was interested in the game that was to be with Fallout NV learning about things that changed and was removed.  Sorry if it was posted somewhere here before. It is an older video.

 

[Doublezero]

Whose bright idea was it to use the ALT key to place mines AND melee attack?

[ritualclarity]

The same people that thought it was a good idea to use the same engine for 20+years and that potato faces was acceptable in modern games.

[endgameaddiction]

 

[Doublezero]

Why didn't Father send a group of Cursers to Vault 111 to retrieve the Sole Survivor and take him/her to the Institute?

Why let your only surviving parent possibly die wondering about the Waistlands, or survive and hear a bunch of negative things about the Institute?

Who the hell at Bethesda read the script for Fallout 4 and thought it was actually good enough to be the main quest for the game?

Who the hell thought this story would hold up to even the slightest scrutiny?

[ritualclarity]

1 hour ago, Doublezero said:

Why didn't Father send a group of Cursers to Vault 111 to retrieve the Sole Survivor and take him/her to the Institute?

Why let your only surviving parent possibly die wondering about the Waistlands, or survive and hear a bunch of negative things about the Institute?

Who the hell at Bethesda read the script for Fallout 4 and thought it was actually good enough to be the main quest for the game?

Who the hell thought this story would hold up to even the slightest scrutiny?

That is because the Sole Survivor was a synth.

1. only memories from right before the bomb.  Any reference to what they did or were was only available with photo and diplomas etc. (hinted by that synth at far point I forget his name)

2. Everybody died in the vault.  Why they lived until Kellog came to kill your spouse?  (a lie based on partial fact is very believable. Likley Kellog did go there to collect materials. Werent' all 3 gen synths suuppose to be from materials from the vault? Clean un-altered / damaged materials?  If it was just the soul survors spouse.... that doesn't meash with  fact that there are different races present in the 3 gen and coursair models. )

3. skill was inset that the sole survivor could live in the wasteland. Even the woman that was a lawyer. (if you choose that option) I believe the male is beliveable as he had military experience but not the wife. (an option)  (remember corsairs are created knowing basic skills and knowlege. .. aka programed)

4. Nobody at the institue had any issues with Father giving both access and control to the soul survivor. (however, note... no real control just in name. )  (a failsafe in case the experiment was able to get to the vault. A path of control where the soul survivor was instructed .. key word here... to handle problems for the institute. Notice, the soul survivor had a motivation to KILL Kellog. Which there are plenty of references they had a concern with him (institute)).

5. able to take down a courser by him/her self.  Synths so deadly that nobody survived encounteres with them. (WTF... seriously? )

I don't believe it was meant to hold up to any scrutiny.  However, also tried to attempt to have it be able to fit whatever the user wanted.  That they screwed up bad. Another better example is Bioshock where the player learns that he was controled throughout the entire game. Would you kindly.  Keep in mind that there were key word and such implanted in synths to control them, motivate them.

Well that is my 2 cents.

[Doublezero]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:24 PM, ritualclarity said:

That is because the Sole Survivor was a synth.

1. only memories from right before the bomb.  Any reference to what they did or were was only available with photo and diplomas etc. (hinted by that synth at far point I forget his name)

2. Everybody died in the vault.  Why they lived until Kellog came to kill your spouse?  (a lie based on partial fact is very believable. Likley Kellog did go there to collect materials. Werent' all 3 gen synths suuppose to be from materials from the vault? Clean un-altered / damaged materials?  If it was just the soul survors spouse.... that doesn't meash with  fact that there are different races present in the 3 gen and coursair models. )

3. skill was inset that the sole survivor could live in the wasteland. Even the woman that was a lawyer. (if you choose that option) I believe the male is beliveable as he had military experience but not the wife. (an option)  (remember corsairs are created knowing basic skills and knowlege. .. aka programed)

4. Nobody at the institue had any issues with Father giving both access and control to the soul survivor. (however, note... no real control just in name. )  (a failsafe in case the experiment was able to get to the vault. A path of control where the soul survivor was instructed .. key word here... to handle problems for the institute. Notice, the soul survivor had a motivation to KILL Kellog. Which there are plenty of references they had a concern with him (institute)).

5. able to take down a courser by him/her self.  Synths so deadly that nobody survived encounteres with them. (WTF... seriously? )

I don't believe it was meant to hold up to any scrutiny.  However, also tried to attempt to have it be able to fit whatever the user wanted.  That they screwed up bad. Another better example is Bioshock where the player learns that he was controled throughout the entire game. Would you kindly.  Keep in mind that there were key word and such implanted in synths to control them, motivate them.

Well that is my 2 cents.

The Sole Survivor should have been a synth, but the problem with the "Sole Survivor is a synth" theory is that it conflicts with Emil Pagliarulo's "keep it simple, stupid" method of writing. For him, it would be too complicated for the average player, so he gave us the simple parent looking for their child story; we're too stupid to appreciate good storytelling, I guess.

[ritualclarity]

8 hours ago, Doublezero said:

The Sole Survivor should have been a synth, but the problem with the "Sole Survivor is a synth" theory is that it conflicts with Emil Pagliarulo's "keep it simple, stupid" method of writing. For him, it would be too complicated for the average player, so he gave us the simple parent looking for their child story; we're too stupid to appreciate good storytelling, I guess.

I can't deny that.

I will never state that Bugthesda has great writers. In the past they had OK writers. The one liners and some easter eggs were fun and interesting but they keep on getting more and more lazy.  The proof is those DLC (and better) sized mods that were created for Skyrim and Fallout NV. IMO if a mod author and their team can make someting on par of or in several cases better than a AAA company main IP releases.... then there is something wrong with the company.

I assume Emil Pagliarugo is the genius that gave us Fallout 4 main story? 

On another note, every release of a game in the Fallout franchise (TES as well) has gotten lazier and lazier writings. Now the game is so bad (Main story) with their new franchise Starfail that mod authors aren't even willing to work on the game. Yes, there are issues with the game engine but with such a vacant story combined with bad code, they just aren't going to work on it any more. Writing is one of the cheapest ways to make a game great. Hook them with options and story and keep their interest and many players expecially fans would deal with the old bugs that have been a pat of that engine since the beginning. The mod authors would work to overcome the issues IMO much like they did for Skyrim and having to work around getting animations into the game. They would  have a read and large ongoing fan base for the game to work with and get praises from (and now with paid mods potential $$$ as well)

[ritualclarity]

8 hours ago, Doublezero said:

The Sole Survivor should have been a synth, but the problem with the "Sole Survivor is a synth" theory is that it conflicts with Emil Pagliarulo's "keep it simple, stupid" method of writing. For him, it would be too complicated for the average player, so he gave us the simple parent looking for their child story; we're too stupid to appreciate good storytelling, I guess.

Your statement made me think.

There were easy ways to add this to the game. Kellog battle and death could have started an arch where the player has the opportunity to find out the origins of themselves. Find proof. (perhaps dead copies that were used for testing before the final release)  Then the supermutant could have had some information, info found in an old part of the institute or another off shoot base they had (for testing such things) It would have been easy to add this if they would have only added some more story archs.

Yea, the writers were very lazy and lost an opportunity to wow the players and let enjoy the game more. KTOR is an example that I ran across of excellent writing. Thte game seemed to be fine as I played it but there was the scene where a flashback occured and all the interactions played out to show what really was going on. What really happened.  I remember my hair on my arms standing up it was so good. I had to stop playing for a few minutes and ponder how such things went past me and I didn't noticed. Another is Bioshock. Would you kindly. A bit lazy but still worked and gave the player some added meat to the game.