The fallout from Fallout 4 (Discussion Thread)

[Karma199696]

50 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

Has Bethesda fixed the overlapping spoken dialogue?

it only happened very seldom to me (such as the Orsimer starting the Dawnguard quest-line while i was talking to someone else) and i thought it was fault of my over-modded game... but even if i played for almost 2.000 hours now, i didn't actually play all the quests and all the possible quest-lines yet...  so i might have lost something...

[Kendo 2]

I'm talking about FO4.  Overlapping dialogue and the lip syncs are off for the player and every NPC.

[Karma199696]

1 hour ago, Kendo 2 said:

I'm talking about FO4.  Overlapping dialogue and the lip syncs are off for the player and every NPC.

oops, sorry...  misunderstood since you didn't quote anybody and not having played FO4, i assumed yours was a response to the preceding post (mine)

[Kendo 2]

S'okay. 

Anyway, I was thinking about revisiting FO4 so I looked at a few mods and watched some 'Let's Play' videos on YouTube.  That was enough to change my mind.  I suffered through 99 hours of FO4 to complete the BOS questline the first time.  NOTHING has been done by Bethesda or modders to make me go through that again.  If I want to play a bad shooter I'll play Far Cry; not some Bethesda turd shooter set in the Fallout universe.  Maybe in few years when there's been a complete redo of the main quest (or just getting rid of it altogether). OR if Obsidian makes something like they did with New Vegas.

[ritualclarity]

It is still the same animation and such. The things that you found most offending. I have found some interactions and actions in the Far Harbor that was quite good...

However one of the main quest where you recover memories.  are you fucking kidding me!? I have to do that.. WTF. I was so mad and frustrated I `qqq out of the game and didn't return for a few days. Dam that was annoying. Also it appears now that I completed the main quest line that the other options really don't appeal to me too much to replay-ability isn't there. I just can't believe the other optional paths enough to get behind it.

I played the institute and my main companion is Valentine.. Imagine the issues that arise with that. Anyway if you do go to Far Harbor there are some nice events that occur only with Valentine with you when you travel around there. However apparently not that much. Haven't tried other companions there yet.

[Kendo 2]

Yeah.  Let me know when I dress Piper in a nothing but a high heels and a dog collar and roger her in the ass.  In other words two or three years from now.

[ritualclarity]

I am pretty sure you could create high heels and a dog collar right now :). Someone is working on Spectrum's Toy Pack and converting it over. Perhaps you mightfind something there when it is released.

[Nailos18]

Now if only I could get the CK to stop crashing on me!

Beth has left some rather stupid dialogue in the game.  I have been busy in the little spare time I have altering dialogue to fit what I prefer.   Found out that in the CK I have to save my esp after I change each line of dialogue or take a chance of 40+ minutes of work dying when I get a CK crash.

There are currently 2 high heel mods that I know of.  There are about 5 mods on Nexus with high heeled boots ( if done right I like them, but these are not for me ) they look like all they did was put a high heel mesh onto a boot instead of creating an actual high heeled boot.

As for collars, I think there is one on LL.  There are a few mods on Nexus and tumblr that have some.  I think Spectrums Toy Pack and Plugs of the commonwealth could go well with your collard/high heeled Piper.

[Kendo 2]

Making the models and textures isn't a problem for me.  Proper motivation and interest in the game is the killer.  I just don't care about FO4 and if I didn't read about it somewhere on a daily basis I'd totally forget the game exists.

Something I have noticed is people pleading with modders to make content for FO4.  I've never seen that with a Bethesda game.  Usually modders dive on new games, but that's not happening with FO4.  'Stop complaining and make mods for it.'  'If you want the game to be better then make mods for it.' etc.  So either the game is SO bad that it needs mods to be playable or it's so bad that well-known modders aren't touching it.

Agame must have three things for me to take time to mod it; it must be mod compatible, I must enjoy playing it, the fan base can't suck, and there has to be replay value in the base game.  The way I see it FO4 gets one out of four; it can be modded...and that's it.

[Carabosse]

I would not argue against your own motivations. But some modders are diving on Fallout 4.

As much as I hate to admit it, it's a large reason for the delay in the next version of Bestial Essence. I love the game and it has given me many times more inspiration to mod than Skyrim ever did.

The transition to creation kit for Fallout 4 is so smooth and I am really appreciating the quality of life improvements. I made a fairly complex mod for Skyrim, comprising over 400 scripts (and many other components besides). I personally believe that Fallout 4 is a much better canvas to work upon, both in game and in creation kit.

As for people pleading for content, let them plead so early in the creation tools existence. And cast a suspicious eye on authors who release substantive content so early in the lifecycle of said tools.

[ritualclarity]

Quote

So either the game is SO bad that it needs mods to be playable or it's so bad that well-known modders aren't touching it.

It is an "or" situation it is an "and" situation

Quote

The way I see it FO4 gets one out of four; it can be modded...and that's it.

Well part of #4... according to the author and those working with him on iHuman.. the 64bit CK is changing the ESM on the fly. Something that isn't suppose to happen. So it is moddable somewhat. Likely what the issue with mod authors jumping on the modding scene as strongly as they have in the past. There is some issues. However... to be honest the 64bit CK is Beta so there will be issues.

[Nailos18]

True.  I have been altering the base response dialogues of settlers and companion npc's to fit what I like more.  As in, Cait being more agressive and happy with her response when I kill some random raider.  Or more shocked and excited when we come across some legendary enemy.

My issue with CK right now is the just random crashes and if I alter any of the settler dialogue it has about a 20% chance of changing something in the F4.esm that I am only opening with my custom esp.  Why its not inputting the changes for settlers onto my esp and onto the esm I can't figure out yet.

Just watched a tutorial on making npc's.  Got the basics done.  Now I need to learn how to do custom dialogue and voice types, and actual voice data to imput for said npc's. 

@ritualclarity I have 2 NPC's so far doing References to some old Sexout stuff but for the life of me I can't seem to get the correct dialogue flags set.  Gonna have to go pick Pepertje and Gamedudes brains to find out how they did it.

[Doublezero]

I wonder what Bethesda will do to address this?

 

[Nailos18]

Yeah, a friend of mine from Finland has been making mods for CBBE and posting them to Nexus, saying his stuff won't be on beth's site.

2 hours later, all 3 of his mods are on that site for Xbox and ps.

He has decided to never again use that site after his complaints to them got answered with a " All content loaded onto Betheshda.net is property of Bethesda.  While we look into this issue we hope this doesn't stop you from sharing your content. "

He flipped his chair over on skype he got so pissed after reading the whole message he got back.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Nailos18

[Doublezero]

It's probably best that your friend release his mod assists under some sort of a license (preferably Kendo's Open Source Licence). With people uploading mods to Bethesda.net without the original author's consent I think it's time for modders to seriously consider protecting their work.

[Kendo 2]

7 hours ago, Nailos18 said:

Yeah, a friend of mine from Finland has been making mods for CBBE and posting them to Nexus, saying his stuff won't be on beth's site.

2 hours later, all 3 of his mods are on that site for Xbox and ps.

He has decided to never again use that site after his complaints to them got answered with a " All content loaded onto Betheshda.net is property of Bethesda.  While we look into this issue we hope this doesn't stop you from sharing your content. "

He flipped his chair over on skype he got so pissed after reading the whole message he got back.

There are several problems with this situation; the primary one being that FO4 CBBE is a derivative of the vanilla female Skyrim body mesh.  In other words, Bethesda owns CBBE by default.  There is nothing Mr. Finland can do other than reporting the content at Bethesda.net and hope they 'do the right thing' and remove the mods.

Looking to the Nexus staff for solutions will end with one result; 'sorry about your luck but keep uploading'.  Nexus is ran as a business, not a modding community.  When you deal with the staff think of them as mall cops, snarky bank tellers or that rude little shit who works at Starbucks.  They're inefficient, on a power trip and useless.  If Mr. Finland questions them or stirs up more trouble than they can deal with they'll just ban him with a bogus excuse.

I've said from day-one that FO4 modding will not be what people are used to and no one believed me.

[Nailos18]

Yeah, I just spent about 2 hours convincing him to forget cbbe and use Jane Bod.  I like that one better.  

The mod theft on Beth's site though is getting crazy.  Saddest part about it is that majority of the mods you currently see going onto nexus for F4 have the " if you see this on another site, its been stolen and I offer no help nor am I responsible for said stolen work. "  I use more mods then I will probably ever create but I believe it should be common sense for people not to do crap like taking a mod they want from Nexus that the mod author says they wont make for console.  Just so console players can get it, even if they know its " stolen " work.   And the sheer amount of idiots defending the thieves just baffles me.

[ritualclarity]

3 hours ago, Nailos18 said:

Yeah, I just spent about 2 hours convincing him to forget cbbe and use Jane Bod.  I like that one better.  

The mod theft on Beth's site though is getting crazy.  Saddest part about it is that majority of the mods you currently see going onto nexus for F4 have the " if you see this on another site, its been stolen and I offer no help nor am I responsible for said stolen work. "  I use more mods then I will probably ever create but I believe it should be common sense for people not to do crap like taking a mod they want from Nexus that the mod author says they wont make for console.  Just so console players can get it, even if they know its " stolen " work.   And the sheer amount of idiots defending the thieves just baffles me.

What the mod content creators need to do is figure out a way, script or something that will royally fuck up the console if it is uploaded on Beth's site but will work fine with regular PC :)this will work quite well as I believe most theifs are no talent jerks and wouldn't be able fix any issues. That or a class action lawsuit for Besthesda not providing adequate protection and verification of works uploaded. Much of the stuff would be under their rights as the EULA however much of what is being stolen was and has used outside materials and such which makes it copyrighted and not protected by the EULA. They have lawyers on retainer if not on salary for this so that isn't the issue... the public humiliation is the issue here. Can't beat them in court... destroy them in Public Opinion.

[ritualclarity]

Step on my Soapbox

Being easily converted to console isn't the issue in my opinion. Bethesda isn't doing their job. The thief of a mod requires it to be uploaded onto their "sanctioned" site, correct? In order for it to be able to be uploaded into an Xbox or PS4 as I understand it. They started the paid mod crap earlier but allowed others to take the lead (Steam) and got bitch slapped when Steam wasn't handling the situation correctly so I believe they decided to host the entire thing themselves. yes.. that is the ticket. Lets "Assume Direct Control".

Well that would work if they weren't incompetent. The bitching will happen. Lets face it Console users just don't know, they are "users" and just click and play. One of the main attractions for users of consoles. No need to think just play. Nothing wrong with that. The game manufactures choosing consoles over PCs isn't their fault either, I would even go so far as to state the current "crybaby" situation and even downright thief of mods isn't directly their fault either because without an outlet for these stolen content or mods (Bethesda) the assets would be useless.

The blame here is solely with Bethesda. There will be stolen content, there will be bitching and perhaps at the beginning loads of bitching and exploitation. However it is through their system after they "Assume Direct Control" so it is something that they need to address and they are proving seriously incompetent in this matter. There will be some "growth pains" as it is hard to predict what will happen when a new feature like this is introduced however this should only take them a few weeks to sort out.

I suggest that they would:

• implement some more standardization on the discipline procedure(s) and make sure it is easily available and understandable in the various languages that is served by their system. 
• implement a more rapid resolution of complaints of theft. (mod can be hidden from users until sorted out any donations etc would be also held that haven't been distributed until the resolution of the complaint has been resolved. Frivolous claims can result in instant ban. Those found with stolen content will also be banned and all donations/monies etc not already distributed will be given to the correct author) 
• Establish a "Procedure of intent" where the mod author can establish if or if not they will be porting their content to the Xbone or PS$ on the mod download page clearly. After that has been done people posting or PM'ing them to change their mind will be met with warnings. After an established # of warnings (total not per author/mod) the member will be banned and all attempts at keeping them out will be taken. The procedure can be increased (# of warnings like say double) if someone post on the same thread within 2 pages requesting a port to Xbone/PS$.
• More responsive "Report" procedure and moderators that can and are willing to enforce the rules without bias those that don't get removed and others established.

Strong enforcement of policies and procedures, changing those that aren't working to more stronger ones, getting moderators that will preform their task will result in the site and the content being properly controlled limiting theft, bitching about not having a Xbone or PS$ version of a mod. There is no need to "remove the option" for future games just moderate the dam site properly. That is all that is needed to be done. Any failure is the direct result of Bethesda now. They took the responsibility for the process and they are the sole party that can provide the content to Xbone or PS$. They are the ones that can and should set the standard for processes and show the communities that they respect the content of the mods that people make for their games and will do all they can do to provide a proper environment for this.

If they fail they will be the ones that feel the pain as mod content creators will start to move from modding into retirement. Their games are "incomplete" and "empty" for most users. Without the mods being created which create in massive replability their games won't be as popular. Lets face it They do provide a platform that is one of the best ones (currently) that provide for modablity however that doesn't mean that people will mod, they will just stop like so many have in the past because of dicks and pricks that feel entitled to be jerks and assholes.

Time to step off my Soapbox

[Doublezero]

Fallout 4 lead Todd Howard admits the game's dialogue system "didn't work as well"

Quote

Let me start off by saying that I love Fallout 4. Despite this, there's no escaping the fact that it's a game with a very different focus to the rest of the series, with more of an emphasis on exploration and gunplay, its dialogue more simplified and with fewer branching pathways, especially when compared to the last game, New Vegas, which offered multiple approaches to each quest, many of them influenced by your character build.

In a video interview with Gamespot, creative director Todd Howard said Bethesda were just trying something new, but they're aware it "didn't work as well".

"We do like to try new things and we have some successes," Howard says, "I think the shooting in Fallout 4 is really good - I think it plays really well. Obviously the way we did some dialogue stuff, that didn't work as well. But I know the reasons we tried that - to make a nice interactive conversation - but [it was] less successful than some other things in the game.

"For us, we take that feedback. I think long-term."

He went on to expand that they tried offering player choice and impact through the game's ending choices, where players can decide which faction they want to side with. This has been expanded on more in the recently released Far Harbor expansion.

"Then we have an opportunity with something like Far Harbor like: okay, how many different ways can it end - let's give them some more choice," explains Howard. £So it's not just a one-off, meaning Fallout 4 comes out and then we forget about it - it's an ongoing thing. The feedback we get is really, really helpful."

Hopefully this means we get the punchy combat and the freedom of choice in future Bethesda RPGs.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/fallout-4/fallout-4-dialogue

[Doublezero]

I don't know if this is real, but if it is... oh boy!

 

[Kendo 2]

If we can only figure out how to do add that 'feature' to mods intentionally it will be solid gold.  LET the console worms at Bethesda.net steal mods.  They'll be the ones who get all the grief for uploading malware.

[Doublezero]

The comments on that YouTube video are cringeworthy. DD83 stated in the video description that he was testing his mod, yet some asked why he even upload it to beth.net. How can he test his mod without uploading it to beth.net?

[ritualclarity]

5 hours ago, Doublezero said:

The comments on that YouTube video are cringeworthy. DD83 stated in the video description that he was testing his mod, yet some asked why he even upload it to beth.net. How can he test his mod without uploading it to beth.net?

You have to upload a mod you create or tweak to Beth.net to get access to it? Even if it is a personal mod?

[Kendo 2]

2 hours ago, ritualclarity said:

You have to upload a mod you create or tweak to Beth.net to get access to it? Even if it is a personal mod?

Gotta do that to submit a PC mod as a mod for console.  They control the process.