Windows deleting or otherwise screwing up our computers... .Impossible.

[ritualclarity]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/08/microsoft_windows_10_pulled/

 

[JoshQ]

And then the cumulative update caused problems on some HP and Dell computers, plus some reported total lost of audio.

Of course this happens the moment I decide to jump early and update my pc instead of waiting for bug ironing, thankfully all is working nice and well

**KNOCK ON WOOD**

[Kendo 2]

Well, there was a thunderstorm where I live so I had to power down my PC and GODDAMNIT if the update wasn't ready to ambush me.  Luckily it didn't destroy or delete anything.  My rig is vanilla off-the-shelf HP.

[bjornk]

  I've warned you guys and you haven't turned off Windows Updates? Not that I know if that matters anymore...

On 10/7/2018 at 1:09 AM, bjornk said:

Windows 10 users never have to worry, they're in Microsoft's safe hands...

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-has-pulled-windows-10-october-2018-update-users-files-go-missing

 

The only possible case or reason that I'd even consider using Windows 10, is buying a new PC/laptop with a pre-installed W10 on it. I honestly have no sympathy for anyone who upgraded to it from 7 or 8, just because it was free or because they considered 10 somehow "better" or "more secure" than previous versions, which is a delusion at best.

[ritualclarity]

January 14th 2020 support for Windows 7 will end. No  more updates from Microsoft. It WILL then become much more insecure than Windows 10 if you have any critical task (security concerns)  If not then it is great to continue with windows 7.  That is until Steam or some other service decides not to support it because Microsoft isn't supporting it... Discord doesn't support it anymore (features like spell correct) for example and more sill surly come.

The best advice is to move to Linux for your important stuff. (run a vm of windows whatever you want version when needed) and only use Windows for any games that require windows... (since many games do work on Linux with some of the advancements they made)  Steam even streams the games to a laptop etc if you have a good enough network   You can sit a rig with a great graphics card somewhere on your network / home and just turn it on when needed and stream it to your 200 dollar laptop lol (I did that to one of the newer tomb raiders. I forget the version now.) had some issues but that was the network not the process.

If your rig is a monster... and you want to have two graphics cards in there you can even VM directly in the same machine and have a windows game install and have native access if you use "pass through" feature and your motherboard and hardware supports it. There are some i know that do this. (AMD 8 core 4/4 Linux/Windows ) 

The point of my post is we will be dragged kicking and screaming into Windows 10 or beyond eventually if we continue to play games. There are solutions and I advise people to start to think of those. Support for game managers like Steam and Origin (not sure of Gog don't use it. at least yet ;)) as well as tools like Discord and likely other management tools will start to drop support for Windows 7 much like they have for windows xp... Best to make a plan and start working on a solution that you can stand.

[JoshQ]

The problem with some HP computers resides in the driver for the keyboard, yeah…

www.askwoody.com/2018/microsoft-confirms-bug-triggering-bluescreens-in-win10-hp-computers/

If you have patience and access to an Education or Enterprise edition you can tame Windows, mix it with a hardware/third party firewall and all the nags are gone. But yeah it shouldn’t come to this and Microsoft’s “I want that sweet datamining revenue so let me take control of your OS” attitude doesn’t help...

Linux could be a good alternative for most cases, but after all the recent political bs and infighting I’m not so sure.

Edited October 14, 2018 by JoshQ

[ritualclarity]

51 minutes ago, JoshQ said:

The problem with some HP computers resides in the driver for the keyboard, yeah…

www.askwoody.com/2018/microsoft-confirms-bug-triggering-bluescreens-in-win10-hp-computers/

If you have patience and access to an Education or Enterprise edition you can tame Windows, mix it with a hardware/third party firewall and all the nags are gone. But yeah it shouldn’t come to this and Microsoft’s “I want that sweet datamining revenue so let me take control of your OS” attitude doesn’t help...

Linux could be a good alternative for most cases, but after all the recent political bs and infighting I’m not so sure.

There are other issues with different manufactures... the problem occurred before with older OSs but mostly was rare. Now with windows continuing on without waiting and changing and forcing updates and such this will only happen more. There were some issues with another computer that someone that i know had. When it updated.. a previously working wireless stopped working.. the solution? Remove it and replace it! that was the solution as the hardware wasn't part of Windows support and/or it wasn't being updated anymore. I can't remember what it was.

As for Linux.. even if a mass amount of people leave and take their code with them.. that just means no more updates but for the most part the code is pretty solid. If a couple here and there leave, someone else will just step up and do work. I know of someone that was working on some power components a year ago to make it more streamlined. Not sure if it was for personal use or he intended to release it publicly... (or if it would even be accepted) however, there are lots of people doing *stuff* with Linux and coding. It is open source so those with the talent can verify any new code for security and update it if needed. 

The up side that Windows and Mac doesn't have that Linux has is security against massive data mining. (sometimes Linux will data mine depending on what you install so you have to be smart about what you do and install but it isn't default or part of the core system... other than what Umbuntu did a few years ago and backed down)  Keep in mind that most the internet servers and stuff is running on Linux. If someone takes that code.. you can be sure someone will be creating a replacement. QUICKLY!!!!! Might slow down somethings but the more I use it and the more I learn about it... the More I want to use it and feel confident with it. Learning now, fixing problems and learning how to do things. Would be using it more but the laptop I have it in has an very old wifi adapter and I get shit internet signal where I want my desk to be at good enough to do somethings but not as fast as my main rig. (literally right below the desk)

another thing that makes me confident Linux will not be effected like some are fearful (and SJWs wish it to be) is many in the industry has seen the add ons and what is being done and now are removing themselves from that (what was original proposed by SJWs) and added in its place a much more reasonable process.  SJWs fucked with the wrong thing... Most users, and coders aren't stupid fucks...   They see the shit and will (naturally ) change it to something more reasonable and sensible. 

On the otherhand... Microsoft (and Apple to a degree) is getting more and more fucked in the head with the shit they want to and are trying to do.

[bjornk]

29 minutes ago, ritualclarity said:

January 14th 2020 support for Windows 7 will end. No  more updates from Microsoft. It WILL then become much more insecure than Windows 10 if you have any critical task (security concerns)

We now have serious security issues due to badly designed CPUs which cannot be fixed by Microsoft updates and the assumption that one would automatically become more secure by upgrading to a newer Windows is false, which is especially true for Windows 10.

If you have concerns about security, a newer Windows means that you'll have to rely on MS more and more, as they keep taking away users' control of the OS with each new Windows.

[ritualclarity]

2 hours ago, bjornk said:

We now have serious security issues due to badly designed CPUs which cannot be fixed by Microsoft updates and the assumption that one would automatically become more secure by upgrading to a newer Windows is false, which is especially true for Windows 10.

If you have concerns about security, a newer Windows means that you'll have to rely on MS more and more, as they keep taking away users' control of the OS with each new Windows.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3245810/security/how-to-protect-your-pc-meltdown-spectre-cpu-flaws.html

That was an intel and amd failure.. can't really blame Microsoft on this one... (they are responsible for many issues but not this one) They updated it right away as well as Apple and even Linux... however, the update is going to seriously slow down your rigs. From what I hear, it does work (the updates from the OS manufactures) if you updated it. Since windows 7 is still supported along with win 8 and 8.1 those should have updates as well. Also, you should check to be sure you have the latest bios and chip updates as well to be as secure as possible.

On that subject, I am not sure (can't find) if they (the processor manufactures) have corrected that issue in their processors for the newest gen processors (Rizen 2nd gen and intell's 9th gen) Doubt it so doesn't matter what you run until that is fixed.

The machine I am using currently is Win10 and I haven't had any "real" issues with it. I have however searched many reg edits to resolve any issues I wanted control over and turn off functions I wanted to turn off. Went to it as some software I wanted to use wasn't working well with the Windows 7.

https://www.ghacks.net/2016/11/08/improve-windows-10-with-one-click-batch-files/

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html

^ to be as complete as possible. .. the example sight I used. I used more that that. Lots of work which SUCKS but Had to do that with Vista as well as Windows 7 to a much lesser degree (almost perfect )  Some fixes are just preferences and others are more dangerous command line fixes and alterations.  Windows 10 is pretty much dropped right on Windows 7 from what I can see. Many of the old admin tools are still there just hidden (requiring a command or such) to gain access.

Haven't used the "disable automatic updates for windows " option on the above site (reg edit) myself. Not sure if it works well. I restrict it and manually handle it as needed and haven't had an issue ... yet.

[Kendo 2]

8 hours ago, bjornk said:

  I've warned you guys and you haven't turned off Windows Updates? Not that I know if that matters anymore...

I don't know of a way to permanently turn off updates for Windows 10.  Doing it in the Control Panel doesn't work.  Going through Command Prompts and disabling everything in Services\Local doesn't work either.  If there's something hidden in the OS that controls updates I'd like to know what the fuck it is.

[bjornk]

13 minutes ago, ritualclarity said:

That was an intel and amd failure.. can't really blame Microsoft on this one... (they are responsible for many issues but not this one) They updated it right away as well as Apple and even Linux... however, the update is going to seriously slow down your rigs. From what I hear, it does work (the updates from the OS manufactures) if you updated it. Since windows 7 is still supported along with win 8 and 8.1 those should have updates as well. Also, you should check to be sure you have the latest bios and chip updates as well to be as secure as possible.

I wasn't blaming MS as they don't manufacture CPUs, however, this is a problem that needs to be fixed at the silicon level. Whether it's from Intel or MS, doesn't matter, software updates can only mess things up even further. I'd personally completely ignore any software/microcode updates and just continue to be careful and vigilant as one usually is when using 3rd party programs or browsing the web. I'd also avoid buying new computers or CPUs until Intel and AMD have actually fixed these problems.

32 minutes ago, ritualclarity said:

On that subject, I am not sure (can't find) if they (the processor manufactures) have corrected that issue in their processors for the newest gen processors (Rizen 2nd gen and intell's 9th gen) Doubt it so doesn't matter what you run until that is fixed.

Not fixed for Intel's 9th gen AFAIK.

[bjornk]

50 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

I don't know of a way to permanently turn off updates for Windows 10.  Doing it in the Control Panel doesn't work.  Going through Command Prompts and disabling everything in Services\Local doesn't work either.  If there's something hidden in the OS that controls updates I'd like to know what the fuck it is.

Can't disable the WU service? Wow, that sucks.

On Windows XP, 7 & 8 you run services.msc and just change the "Startup Type" of "Windows Update" service as "Disabled". You may want to do the same with the "Background Intelligent Transfer Service" or BITS, not sure Windows 10 has that.

By the way, as I've run out Win7 licenses, I'm currently using Windows 8 Pro with Classic Shell and the WU is turned off. It's fine for just web surfing and playing games once you've got rid of the shitty Start Screen and Metro. It feels really light, as in "lightweight", when compared to 7 because it literally is. Besides the annoying Metro interface, it's basically slimmed down and flattened version of 7. In other words, less of an OS when compared to 7 but still, without forced updates, it's surely better than 10.

Edited October 15, 2018 by bjornk

[ritualclarity]

52 minutes ago, bjornk said:

I wasn't blaming MS as they don't manufacture CPUs, however, this is a problem that needs to be fixed at the silicon level. Whether it's from Intel or MS, doesn't matter, software updates can only mess things up even further. I'd personally completely ignore any software/microcode updates and just continue to be careful and vigilant as one usually is when using 3rd party programs or browsing the web. I'd also avoid buying new computers or CPUs until Intel and AMD have actually fixed these problems.

Not fixed for Intel's 9th gen AFAIK.

yes, I am also reluctant to get a new computer (or actually hardware) until that issue has been fixed. Likley only to happen on a new gen (refresh) However, my  computer is quite old. Might have to do so early than I wanted to.

Anyway, some of the updates are actually necessary and critical and should be done... the problem in my opinion isn't the updates being done but the way they go about the updates and the process.

@Kendo 2

Open "Settings"

clcik on "updates and Security"

click on the "Windows Update"

Then find the Advanced Options link towards the bottom of the page.

Then you can pause the updates for 35days .. not perfect but good for preventing random updates from occurring. I believe you should be able to update as you want. I use the timing of the updates options.

That is under "Change active hours) and turn it on for times I will have my computer off (for most of the times lol)  Then I randomly check for updates when I am ready to.. (which is often most of the time) and when I am going to be not using the computer for awhile ...

This only works for the Pro version or the Enterprise version not the Home version from what I understand.

here is a link that has more details (likely better lol)

Also check the link I gave earlier.. there is some reg edits that might work however, I haven't used it and I am not sure if it has to be for a Pro version or not. Might harm the computer but it is something you can check into and see if you want to try it. (at least cross reference it to other sources to be sure it is good to go) I have used some of the other edits and so far so good.

INFO on the intel update and Spectre security issue

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/intel-9-series-cpu-spectre/

 

 

[Kendo 2]

Yeah, that doesn't work.  It will stop the pending update while the PC is on but if you have to shut down or restart for whatever reason the update will be there and it WILL install itself at reboot.

[ritualclarity]

1 minute ago, Kendo 2 said:

Yeah, that doesn't work.  It will stop the pending update while the PC is on but if you have to shut down or restart for whatever reason the update will be there and it WILL install itself at reboot.

It prevents a random unplanned update in the middle of your work ... I don't turn off my computer often at least not until I am done for using it for a while. My Linux laptop stays on almost always. (off subject but )  I don't have much issues with the work. Also don't seem to get the updates as often.

you might look into the reg edit or such to solve the problem further. Likely something there that can do the job better if you need it. Mostly I want the updates as soon as possible (regular ones not the early ones and only the needed ones) and I don't wait or hold off .. Windows is insecure enough as it is and I want the fixes ASAP for that 

From the below it looks like some reg edits are adding entries to turn it off ... Might be what is on the the enterprise version.

 

[JoshQ]

4 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

I don't know of a way to permanently turn off updates for Windows 10.  Doing it in the Control Panel doesn't work.  Going through Command Prompts and disabling everything in Services\Local doesn't work either.  If there's something hidden in the OS that controls updates I'd like to know what the fuck it is.

Check 'Option four' to configure your internet conection as "metered" and stop updates, the other options work too:

www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8013-enable-disable-windows-update-automatic-updates-windows-10-a.html

@ritualclarity, hope you're right. Linux deserves more mainstream adoption (and of course more development and refinement), politics doesn't contribute to that.

About windows 10 updates, sadly MS decided to trade reliability for fluff and datamining. This is the Nth time a supposedly tested version falls flat on its face in the spotlight, the biggest problem with 1809 (the deletion of the user folder) was found and brought to light 3 months ago, but the "testers" forums is just an echo chamber and whoever leads QA didn't paid enough attention (too busy posting cats on social media I think).

So in the age of 'everything is connected and everyone is a product' the incompetence and plain greed of the tech world is on all-time-high... jebus have mercy of our souls.

[ritualclarity]

@JoshQ unfortunately... however, Linux is far from "main stream" that is easy to use and implement for the normal casual user. It requires some work to get it up to running what you want. Requires some research when you run into an issue and sometimes you have problems with drivers for devices that are not supported anymore or supported at all. There isn't the "fit and finish" you get from many other main OS like Windows and Apple.

Umbuntu being the closest to the Windows experience and for the most part you don't have to open a console if you don't want to. Usually there is a solution outside of that for 90% of the problems you might experience. It is also heavily supported and developed, so you have most if not all of the newest fixes and applications. the benefit for all that extra work (not much but... ) is you have an OS that does what you want it to do. When you want it to do it. No hijacking of the computer, forcing updates or even restriction on how you want to do a task. (other than perhaps having to learn how to do something using the command line/ console etc)

Quote

About windows 10 updates, sadly MS decided to trade reliability for fluff and datamining. This is the Nth time a supposedly tested version falls flat on its face in the spotlight, the biggest problem with 1809 (the deletion of the user folder) was found and brought to light 3 months ago, but the "testers" forums is just an echo chamber and whoever leads QA didn't paid enough attention (too busy posting cats on social media I think).

Sadly that sounds about right. Why would someone have a thread and not keep up and investigate a common occurrence to see if it is something they need to address?  Waste of time on the part of those trying to help Microsoft by tossing their hardware on the altar and potentially screwing up their data in the process.

Quote

So in the age of 'everything is connected and everyone is a product' the incompetence and plain greed of the tech world is on all-time-high... jebus have mercy of our souls.

There are ways around it .. however not always easy or convenient. after all.... Snowden is video conferencing and doing all sorts of computer stuff without being able to be found   That is the extreme side of things but...

[bjornk]

Quote

Microsoft Admits Normal Windows 10 Users Are 'Testing' Unstable Updates

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/12/12/microsoft-admits-normal-windows-10-users-are-testing-unstable-updates/

Update at your own risk!

[ritualclarity]

AND... the  bullshit will likely continue from what happened with Windows 10 upgrad(s) being shoved unto us.  Just for a graphical upgrade and some GUI goodies.

I will fight tooth and nail until a few years have passed and they have a couple of hundred updates and such under their belt before I upgrade.   Like I did for Window 10.  Hopefully, I will be able to wait even longer if whatI would like to do (I can figure out how to do it) can be done. (Use Linux as daily driver and VM Windows 10/11 for those items I HAVE to use in Windoze. Pass through the graphics card and Windows HD and I should be near 100% the speed of the windows on bare metal. Unfortunately, with gaming (and xbox) I am pretty well stuck to have some form of windows running for the foreseeable future)

[Alkpaz]

Games started requiring Win 10 in 2019, 4 yrs after release, and even then, the requirement was a lie since some games worked under Win 7, when they stated on their pages they required 10. I don't think many people will be able to afford new PCs or hardware in the years to come, especially under this administration. 

[ritualclarity]

3 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

Games started requiring Win 10 in 2019, 4 yrs after release, and even then, the requirement was a lie since some games worked under Win 7, when they stated on their pages they required 10. I don't think many people will be able to afford new PCs or hardware in the years to come, especially under this administration. 

I have regularly seen and heard from some associates that deal in electronic sales (computer parts etc) and repair where people come in and spend up to 2700 dollars just for a graphics card.  We all know of the lines and fight it takes to get any modern 3000 nVidia card. How they are being re-sold for several times their suggested price. I believe people have no problem getting money for these things. Yes, there will be some that will have to struggle (like me) to get an upgrade but most seem to have little effort.

As for needing to use Windows 11 I don't see a reason. their installer should be just fine using the same coding as windows 10 hell even perhaps in some cases Windows 7  This just means that they won't SUPPORT the game on that OS.  It will be some time before windows 10  is fully depreciated. the Direct X version might be offered in the new game but I have seen that they often package the lower /previous windows version of Direct x for the users of the game. It is rare to get a game that will only work for x OS and Y direct x version. This of course is due to the fact that the companies want the widest opportunity for sales. Keep in mind there will be a few years before people convert over to 11 even if Windows tries to shove it down our throats like they did for windows 10 previously. I didn't convert over untiil about half way through Windows 10 life. then only because Discord and other program issues using Windows 7 was experienced.

[bjornk]

Oh look, ads break Windows... who would have thought...

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-11/255402/those-windows-11-instabilities-were-caused-by-a-microsoft-ad

[ritualclarity]

and from my understanding Windows 11 will only run on an eight generation Intel (or the like) or greater. If you have older computers they won't.

Which brings me to a funny feeling considering how much of the chip design and coding is being hidden, how much of these changes are due to them doing this and trying to force people to get newer computers?  So that more computers have these newer chips?  I mean the computer processing power on the older gen chips are good enough to run Windows and most programs well enough.  I am typing this on a 3rd gen intel computer. No problems there. (by the way also running windows 10 ...  

 

[bjornk]

Here's a glimpse of the future and why you should steer clear of 11.

https://www.windowscentral.com/valorants-windows-11-tpm-gamble

Microsoft's strategy of taking away the user's control on their own system will eventually end up in place where they can lock you out of your own personal computer, but before that a bunch of hackers will most likely manage to do that.

Edited September 18, 2021 by bjornk

[LadySmoks]

On 9/18/2021 at 6:45 PM, bjornk said:

Here's a glimpse of the future and why you should steer clear of 11.

https://www.windowscentral.com/valorants-windows-11-tpm-gamble

Microsoft's strategy of taking away the user's control on their own system will eventually end up in place where they can lock you out of your own personal computer, but before that a bunch of hackers will most likely manage to do that.

Hmmm... "Self driving laptops"? Saddest part is that there ARE those who might need that poop.

Fingers off the keyboard and let "mommy" Microsoft do everything for you... 1984... 2024... whatever!