bethesda Bethesda announces "Creation Club" (Paid Mods)

[Kendo 2]

The best way to deal with bad ideas is to shine a spotlight on them, and a healthy dose of public ridicule doesn't hurt either.  The key is keeping control of the dialogue out of the hands of the glorified simians who operate off of feelings rather than the truth.

AS for ANYTHING Bethesda releases in the future, they shouldn't have burned me with FO4 because they're 100% off of my 'can't live without it' game radar.  I can't say as to whether I'll buy/play Starfield or not.  It all depends on the game and what I see on twitch or youtube after release.  By doing that I dodged the ME Andromeda $60 bullet aimed at my wallet.  I feel good about that so Bethesda gets the same treatment.  Let them make a shitty game.  I don't care.  Let Todd Howard lie through his teeth, let them control Starfield modding.  None of that shit will affect me IF I don't buy the game until they release a Creation Kit for it and I'm aware of what's going on.  For all I know the game might be a FO4-not-worth-modding shit show with no replay value.

[Guest]

There are two things that I am very very curious to see. The sub contract and the amount of payment these modders will get before their content is published.

I mean lets be real. These aren't and never will be actual Bethesda employers. They aren't game developers. Because real game developers for game studios have work benefits such as healthcare benefits. Something that these modders will never be entitled to. Ever. Which makes me laugh for those modders who are pushing real hard to get noticed hoping to get hired as a game developer. This is the best they will ever reach.

All this is from the point I see it, is that modders are offering their services in exchange for a one time payment for their work under a sub contract. And sub contracts means you aren't liable at all by the company. Bethesda at any given moment if they wish for what ever reason, if they have a reason or not could terminate their contract and they couldn't do jack about it. The moment you sign that contract, you have agreed to that. And even if they aren't content with your work and decide to terminate you, they can keep your work and use it as they see fit. Because I bet you that will be in that contract. You basically revoke your rights the moment you signed that contract. Regardless if they choose to not use it at the time and choose to fire you and then decide to give it to someone else to finish it, or they finish it themselves and take full profit.

Now I also wonder how this contract is going to play. Do these modders have a deadline? Is this like a major record label contract where you have to put out a certain amount of albums, or bring in enough revenue before you can just get up and leave? Will you have a quota you must meet in terms of sales and if you never hit that mark you aren't getting a dime?

I bet you what is stated in the contract isn't anything pretty.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Guest

[Kendo 2]

I don't about other states but in Texas any contract that hinders or limits the contractor is null and void.  Companies can't claim ownership of side projects, force non-compete clauses or otherwise infringe on free will.  IF a modder decides to jump on the Creation Kit 'gravy train' they had better research commercial law code in their home state; but of course the new breed of modders around now think they're smarter than everyone else...that and they're Bethesda fanboys.  Their arrogance and stupidity knows no bounds and people like that are primed to get fucked since that what corporations do to the little guys.

And Bethesda doesn't need a contract paragraph to stake claim on anything modders make; the software license for the games themselves already have that stipulation.  The only difference between free-range modding and dealing with the Creation Club is modders are intentionally giving their derivative work to the real owner; Bethesda.  I know a lot of Bethesda players just can't wrap their heads around that, but the facts are the facts.  If someone mods FO4 or Skyrim SE they don't own what they've made since the licenses for those games specifically address derivative content, where as the licenses for previous games didn't.  Why the new clause?  Bethesda.net as a platform for facilitating paid modding is why.

[Kendo 2]

Cruised around the internet just to see what people are saying about this.  Aside from the typical autistic screeching and down-voting Youtube videos, ain't much happening.  There's not a cohesive front on 4chan or Reddit to where people are raiding Bethesda sites to get their voices heard.  It's just pockets of forum crybabies and fanboys tearing at one another.  The true hilarity is being posted by modders who think they are going to cash-in on the Creation Club.  I can tell just by the naive nature of their posts (and who they actually are in some cases) that they have no fucking clue how corporations deal with private individuals.  Some of these dumbasses actually think modding is a job they can profit off of.  Not making that up.  I would link posts but the morons and their ignorant bullshit need to stay where they are.  I don't want NSFWMods getting contaminated.

But I will point out CynicalBrit/TotalBiscut and him being full of shit about what is 'paid modding' and what it isn't.  That dude has no fucking idea what he's talking about and he just shills for Bethesda.  How that guys has over 2 million Youtube subs is a fucking mystery.  He gave Bioware a free pass for ME Andromeda and now he's a paid mod Bethesda collaborator.  Sad, but MxR and MattyPlays did the same thing when it comes to this 'Creation Club' heist.  "Best idea evuh!"   Retards.

This Creation Club thing won't be about shit until the next game comes out anyway.  No one cares about Skyrim SE or FO4 enough for Bethesda's move to have any impact.  It will hit home when Starfield is released and the Creation Club is already in place.  There won't be a cycle of free mods Bethesda tries to intercept and capitalize on.  They will be there at the starting gate with their Creation Club, restrictive EULAs and total control over the Starfield modding scene.  It's theirs for the taking and anyone who thinks Bethesda won't do that is a fool.

[Guest]

Yeah, I had a good laugh back in 2015 when I seen how people saw this from some sort of job/career perspective. And even then but mostly now than ever they see this as an opportunity to make it big in the industry. Like Bethesda taking notice and recruiting them as a game developer. if Bethesda gave an ounce on talent, these big modders would be hired by now. Especially since they are a small developing team. But that is the reason for Creation Club to exist anyways. it's just a way of recruiting big modders as unofficial employers to make Bethesda more money, while like last time, throwing out chump change to these modders. Their intentions haven't changed since then. It's the typical corporates that want every single dollar in your wallet. And they'll do what ever means necessary to take it. Even if that means divide and conquer tactics.

And the most vulnerable ones are young adults full of aspiration and determination to make it big. They have yet to see how the real world functions.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

I'm going to throw this out there even though it's obvious to us here. There are over 100 reports of bug issues with Bruma. I'm baffled that they didn't really test this all that well on older machines even though they claimed to. This reminds me a lot like Bethesda. Everything works fine and dandy on their end, but the moment it out there for people to buy and play it, there's all these complaints about bugs.

The people defending Creation Club are also defending the fact that after the content is created by the mod author or project team, it has to go through Bethesda. One of that is if the mod is in -playable condition. Just look at Bethesda's history and you'll see how well they've managed to stay true to that. So once these "DLCs" his the paywall, and people begin to buy these created content, they're going to be facing many issues like you see with Bruma. Bruma is a perfect example of how this whole thing is going to flop and people are going to flip because they paid money for this content and it's full of bugs.

Who's going to proceed to patch these created content once all these bug reports start to pile up? Bethesda, or the project team? If it's the project team, are they going to be compensated for their efforts to fixing the issues? Or is Bethesda going to take over the project and "fix" it while breaking it more like they do so well with their own games?

Either way, Bruma sets the perfect example of how this is badly going to go down. They better prepare for the backlash.

[ritualclarity]

I see somewhat where you are but have some issues with the path your trying to use to get there. Allow me to explain.

First, Burma is free, will be free from now on. They state that they will not place it behind a pay wall. As a result, they can create a crappy mod or an excellent experience and for different people it will be likely different. They also do what they can do to update/repair/fix the issues and if they can't figure it out... oh well. You didn't pay something for it. Not a red cent so it is what it is regardless of the quality. I don't see this as a good example of what you are tying to get at other than there is a large team working on mods and there are serious issues which, I counter with they aren't Bethesda's team with access to their tools, They aren't being paid for the mod and they have no "usability" guarantee of use for the mod. If it doesn't work, report it and give the info requested. If they can't fix it .. delete it and move on. Nothing lost except for your time and effort. Just like all other mods here and elsewhere. This isn't the case with the Creation Club. They are implying (or out right stating it ) that it will be a better experience as they will have their "experts" work with the mod author through a process that will make it a solid capable and reliable mod.  I have serious doubts that they can do that for the very reasons that you state in the above post endgameaddiction. Bethesda has a difficult time keeping their products functional and with acceptable quality when they sell them, how will they be able to do better for these proctored submitted mods? I agree with you on this, they can't. I will be surprised if they can do so unless the bar for acceptable submissions are so far below their normal work that a 90 year old bind modder could do it in their sleep. (simple asset additions like a gun or armor etc.

In any case as with other 'products" that they sell, I will be waiting a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG time before I pay for anything else from them. I will have to be thoroughly convinced that they are giving an acceptable level of product before I get anything else which especially goes for these Creation Club products.

[Kendo 2]

Bethesda doesn't QC the stuff they make in house.  So they're going to QC content made by modders at the Creation Club?  NO...they aren't.  That's the real problem with paying for shit made by modders.

Starting with Skyrim; any mod that adds external scripts has the potential to break the game or not work at all.  That wasn't an issue with Oblivion, FO3 and NewVegas.  Realistically the only mods that are 100% 'safe' to use with Skyrim/FO4 are mesh and textures replacers (depending on who made them of course).  Start adding scripts and the problems begin.  Another problem with Bethesda games is the OS issue.  They say Skyrim will work with Windows Vista and above.  That ain't true and running Skyrim on anything less than Windows 7 will cause problems.  I ran FO4 on Windows 7 and I had a few issues with random crashes and bad rendering in some of the city areas.  There's no way in hell I'm going to install Windows 10 since there are programs I use on a regular basis won't work with it (no plugins).

I'm gonna go ahead and say this since it's what a lot of people think anyway; 'modders wanting to get paid' is mostly liberal Millennials with no real world work experience.  That's why they think the Creation Club is a good idea.  Does anyone trust a liberal Millennial's judgement?  Didn't think so. 

[Doublezero]

I doubt we're going to see many (if any) mods the size of Bruma on Creation Club. It takes years to make something like that and the modders who want to make a quick buck isn't going spend the time to make it. Crab armor is the bar Bethesda set for Creation Club and I don't expect much beyond that.

Having said that I wouldn't pay for Bruma. Once you put a price on something I expect a certain level of quality.

[ritualclarity]

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Bethesda doesn't QC the stuff they make in house.  So they're going to QC content made by modders at the Creation Club?  NO...they aren't.  That's the real problem with paying for shit made by modders.

I agree.

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I'm gonna go ahead and say this since it's what a lot of people think anyway; 'modders wanting to get paid' is mostly liberal Millennials with no real world work experience. 

For years, nobody got a penny or even thought of getting money for the mods they made. During Oblivion, most mods were free to use how someone wanted to. As I remember you could take parts of other mods add them to yours and release a new mod. Just give the credit where credit is due. Now we have swung all the over to "entitlements" where people expect to be paid. Truth however, I am not a person to really talk about this as I am not a modder so I am not one of them and it is easy to say .. I don't know what I am talking about. however, I do give extensive support for some pretty problematic/complex mods for many which has made a very big difference in their use. I know how complex that shit can become and I have helped... for free, no expectation of anything not even a Thank You or a like. I would do very much the same with mods if the work I was creating lent itself to doing so.

Just go back to what makes sense. Make mods because you want t. Make what you want and drop all pretense of entitlements.

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Crab armor is the bar Bethesda set for Creation Club and I don't expect much beyond that.

Having said that I wouldn't pay for Bruma. Once you put a price on something I expect a certain level of quality.

I suspect the crap that will be coming out will be like that crab armor or some silly companion or NPC or such. I don't expect much from the program. However, I would pay for a high quality mod. I know it sounds bad but I don't have a problem with people getting some change here and there. I have a problem with the expectation and quite frankly I don't expect quality of even Bethesda level much less better coming out of this. It would take a great deal before I would trust that something created through this would be of the expected quality that I expect. Double Zero states it correctly. If you put a price on something you expect a certain level of quality and quite frankly few could deliver on that.

 

[Guest]

To me, that would be a waste of effort on Bethesda. People have been talking about DLC like content. And I thought Bruma was made around 6 months? If it's one small payment, yes, large content would just be a complete waste of time and effort. And eventually it's going to be tedious if weapons and armors are the only thing people will be putting behind a paywall. Because everyone will want in on doing that and eventually there will just be hundreds of weapons and armors on Creation Club. It would make more sense to have content that is more rare and really worthwhile. But if this is the case, Bethesda is being very cheap on paying these modders. it's a joke. One time payment and then Bethesda makes the rest of the profit. Yeah, this is no different than the profit split in 2015. But they want to sell their souls to the devil, I don't care. Either way this is going to backfire on them. Their assets will belong to Beth and if they decide in the future to use those meshes without crediting, they can rightfully do so because they signed a contract stating the revoke of their work over to Bethesda. because of the EULA. Either way this is a win win for Bethesda while modders are still getting the short end of the stick.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Guest

[ritualclarity]

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To me, that would be a waste of effort on Bethesda. People have been talking about DLC like content.

It would make more sense to have content that is more rare and really worthwhile.

I agree. Without a nice selection of mods, some small armors and such but also large DLC type/Quality mods, it is a waste of time. Even more a waste of time if the quality is even below that of Bethesda's releases.

If the payment is a one time and not much (no reason to suspect it to be different) then it will be difficult I suppose to get people to continue once the have put a mod or two there. Not sure, since the author might be just making a mod and decides ... What the fuck, I might as well get a few dollars from this anyway... thoughts goes through their head.

[Kendo 2]

Well, one of the big 'selling points' Creation Club fans are pushing 'the DLC' sized mods that could potentially be uploaded there.  It's already been pointed out that those types of mods take years to develop and require a team of modders.  None of that will work for the Creation Club.

What I think the Creation Club will really be; it will be like a Renderosity or SmithMicro store front but the content creators won't get paid like it is their own store front.  Most of the content will be armor, clothing and clutter items since anything that requires scripting will never make it past the MicroSoft/Sony vetting process to get the content on to consoles.  Bethesda modding isn't like DAZ/Poser content creation.  DAZ/Poser artists know going in that what they are doing is meant for rendering and screen shots, and that is their target customer base.  Bethesda target base is gamers, and that it is going to be THE PROBLEM.  Also, DAZ/Poser artists retain ownership of anything they create because that is how the licensing and the platform sites work.  That isn't the case with anything Bethesda; they own it by default and once it's uploaded to Bethesda.net or the Creation Club they REALLY OWN IT since they control the files.  The Bethesda/CreationClub business model is a joke and no real artist would participate since they have to surrender all creative control.  No one in their right mind would agree to that, but then again we're talking about Millennial modders who think of it as a fucking career choice.

[Doublezero]

Interesting. In this video at about 43:50, Zaric Zhakaron brought up a rumor that Arthmoor got rejected from Creation Club. I'm not sure why he was rejected but one of the reasons he speculated is that he made too many changes to the game. At the end of the off-topic discussion they came to the conclusion that Creation Club is only about micro-transactions, which is something we already knew.

 

[Guest]

Well, if that's true, it must suck spending thousands and thousands of hours patching their broken games and then being mistreated like that. Even if it was out of pure charity and generosity to the other fellow gamers, modders and mod users, it's still a kick in the balls by Beth.

Spoiler

I may not see eye to eye with everything he does, but if he quits and no one takes his place, good luck with TES6 and FO5. Being dedicated to patch these games for countless hours is a huge level of commitment. And I don't see the younger audience ever stepping up to fill in those shoes. Certainly not millennials. They're too busy being entitled modders seeking recognition and approvals to fill their ego and trying to make a buck out of their mods rather then being productive members of society where economic growth is what matters the most. Not some puppet slave to microtransaction.

But this is just speculations, until it's actually confirmed, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[Kendo 2]

If they're going to shoot down Arthmoor then that also scuttles the 'DLC-sized' mod hype people at Nexus and LL were foisting.  Say hello to Dwemer mudcrabs and crappy mods in general.  The Creation Club will most likely end up being nothing but weapons, outfits, clutter items, etc.  The one major wrench in Bethesda's clockworks is they aren't offering or providing anything a 'you must pay me' modder on a shit-stain private site can't get already.

[ritualclarity]

Likely it will be of lower quality and more repetitive since they seem to be giving the finger to those that will advance the offerings and bring fresh items to the new system.

[Kendo 2]

Yep, the Creation Club is microtransactions.  Here's a link to a post on Reddit that has all of the info archived.

And a video by someone else.

 

[ritualclarity]

There is already a Hell fire mod 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/26251/?

and the others are re textures of the pipboy? It isn't even useful micro-transactions. 

[Guest]

Creation Club will fail, but it won't be the end of it. This isn't going to end like you saw Paid Mods end. They will make changes until they get what they want. And eventually it will reach a point where people are going to desperately want real content that will only be available behind a paywall. I originally thought their plan with CC was to put DLC like content behind it. At least that would of made more sense. It probably crossed their mind, but I'm sure someone around there said that it would probably just take too long for that content to be finished. We want money, and right now. So they go the cheap route. Well, there's another backlash for them. Maybe they'll learn this time? I doubt it. Who knows. I really thought they were after money. But if this is the best they can do to convince people to throw their money at them, by the nine, who's the retard who came up with this plan?

[Kendo 2]

RANT

Spoiler

I seriously doubt I'll ever buy another Bethesda game.  Their 'formula' worked for Oblivion and FO3/NV.  It started falling apart with Skyrim and it crumbled to pieces with FO4.  They rely on shit stories bolstered with 'radiant quests' (code for repetitive content).  People fled Bungie/Activison after they pulled that shit with Destiny BUT Bethesda fans are notoriously dumb so they'll probably take the fucking and justify why it's a good thing.

'An increase in the season pass cost means they'll be making extra content.'
'Best game ever!'
'It is a modding framework.'
'Donate to my Paetron.'
'You're just hating because you think its cool.'
'My mommy says I'm special.' *derp*
'I live in Germany so I'm not allowed to critise anything.'

The only people who care about Bethesda are Nexus and Lover's Lab faggots.  SPOILER!  If you only play games made by one company then you're not a gamer, you're a fucking fanboy.

 

[Guest]

Well people are now complaining about an update to FO4 that just broke F4SE again. And seeing that F4SE hasn't gotten an update in a long long time, let alone SSE get one period, this is not looking good for the mod community. There was a thread about it on Nexus with 3+ pages, but it looks like the staff took it down as the page is no longer available. I only read first post and the OP had put up some mirror downloads to the previous official update patch, but turns out that it didn't work. Looks like Bethesda updated more than just the master files and BSA as they are talking about the .exe as well. I'm guessing it was taken down because of those mirror download links, or there was a huge bitch fest going on.

[Kendo 2]

If Bethesda/Zenimax added a new exe that was forced with the update I can guaran-fucking-tee you they changed to EULA to reflect what they want for the Creation Club.  They did the same thing when paid mods on Valve popped up and they updated 32bit Skyrim.  The game refused to launch without the update and when you updated they added a new EULA to allow them to take mods and use them on the Valve store front.  It's probably the same sort of deal but I really wouldn't know since I removed FO4 after one play-through.

Fans want things to change?  Stop buying fucking Bethesda games and tear their heads off on social media.  BUT the blind Bethesda faithful deserves the shafting their getting, imo.  The game company that made Oblivion and FO3 is dead, just like the carcass of the old Bioware is feeding the EA maggots.  What we once loved an praised no longer exists.

[Guest]

Also, check this. Everyone has the BSA files of the CC content in their PC, but don't have have access to using it. They have to buy it if they want to use it. The content can be extracted with Ba2 or what ever they use to extract BSAs for FO4 and SSE. Some are complaining that Bethesda is using their drives to store this crap they don't want.

If this is true, that means everything that gets uploaded to CC will be added to everyone's PC and take up space, but in order for them to actually use it, they have to buy it.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Guest

[ritualclarity]

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I originally thought their plan with CC was to put DLC like content behind it.

Yes, it was their claim at least. However, lets understand this. Even back in Oblivion days they released a "Horse Armor" so what they are offering is "DLC Like Content" at least in perspective of what they have done in the past.

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I'm sure someone around there said that it would probably just take too long for that content to be finished

I was thinking about this when I seen the videos here and elsewhere on this subject. I believe it was those in power wanted to roll out the project and didn't have larger content and decided to do this with the smaller content to "test the system" so to say. To get it out there for people to see and start to interact and to help iron out any glitches etc. (that is if they were a proper company wanting to be sure their product was functional Which I doubt this is the case.)

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So they go the cheap route. Well, there's another backlash for them. Maybe they'll learn this time? I doubt it. Who knows. I really thought they were after money. But if this is the best they can do to convince people to throw their money at them, by the nine, who's the retard who came up with this plan?

There is a backlash... and it is inevitable. It is the nature and they understand this and will continue. They tried the Steam way and such and failed. Once they created their site and started setting it up I was fairly confident they would be the source. Might have even been their original idea to do but was afraid that there would be more of a backlash due to them being perceived as trying to take over for other modding sites. Hell they might have even wanted it to fail. (Insert favorite Doctor Evil quote here)

So far based on what I have seen and the paths that they have taken, I believe this is exactly what they had in plan since the beginning. They hope that others will come and help increase the content but in reality they need to get it out there and starting to be functional before that can happen. I am of the same opinion as most here... however, I can't help but to understand that they don't have this super large content as they only started this a short time ago and this type of content from mod authors takes quite some time to develop. Honestly, look at the amount of time and man hours it took for your favorite "DLC Sized" mod from Skyrim.

I want to bash them harshly but will reserve my rants until they have had a chance to prove what we all pretty much are willing to bet on... they will fail with this project, before I really tear into them.

@Kendo 2

Yes, I agree with your rant above. In fact their actions and changes have left such a sour taste in my mouth that I was looking at a game for purchase (on sale) at a store.. I was reading it and know it was fairly well regarded but when I read the Bethesda logo on the back... I put it down... I will check further before I buy it and likely will place it on my "wish list" etc for a 5 or so dollar purchase if it is excellent. (I forget the name but it is the one where you are an assassin and the cover has that weird mask. The first edition not the recent release.  ) I didn't realize how bad a number they did to me (well to be fair combined with EA's MEA nonsense)

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Well people are now complaining about an update to FO4 that just broke F4SE again

FUCK!

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Also, check this. Everyone has the BSA files of the CC content in their PC, but don't have have access to using it

Not sure that is the case. However,I have an update to take care of (after zip theFallout exe etc first)  Is there a listing of the new files? I am doing an update and have taken a before update capture.

I'll check later after the update (perhaps ) and see if something new dropped. I believe you have to go and get the file and sign up first before you get the added files. Now once you do that you do get the files and then have to buy them first.

I was already pissed at the size of the Textures pack for something that is almost undetectable.