bethesda Bethesda announces "Creation Club" (Paid Mods)

[bjornk]

Does Steam use a temporary folder to download things into first? I think it does. Don't know what it was though. Could be C:\Steam\SteamApps\downloading. Perhaps not allowing write access to that folder prevents the client from downloading updates. Making the folders read-only as I described above isn't such a good idea as your in-game settings also won't be saved.

[Kendo 2]

No idea.

[Guest]

Now everyone's talking about how Bethesda owns your mods. K2 you were just some crazy loon about this who EULA a few years ago and now look who's laughing now.

[Kendo 2]

Oh, I was laughing back then.

[Kendo 2]

And here I thought I was the only one who caught onto what Gopher was doing.

 

[Guest]

And this is how you can really see how brain dead retarded Beth fanboys are. Bullshit gets called out and the video gets more thumbs down than thumbs up. Millennials love to be comforted with granny gopher lies instead of the hard cold truth.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Guest

[ritualclarity]

4 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

And here I thought I was the only one who caught onto what Gopher was doing.

 

Gopher was just understanding what was being "sold" to us. He looked at the upsides which if Bethesda did what they stated they would do (more than 4000 records) etc.

He is as much as many of us feeling seriously lied to. Not all of us had the foresight that some of us have. Some didn't see this coming even though there was serious hints that this was coming. Now, the other shoe dropped and now everybody even the Bethesda Fan boy that loved and adored Bethesda and their offerings is now realizing Bethesda isn't the "golden" company that those fans thought it was.

I am interested in seeing how his long term reaction will be now that he can clearly see what Bethesda is really like and what they think of their customers and the  modding community which includes him as he is an established Bethesda modder in his own right.

[bjornk]

Gopher is just too naive, doesn't have any foresight and probably a bit of a slow learner.

[Guest]

Bethesda thinks so backwards. I would of thought someone like Gopher would of been in on CC. Anime follower mods would generate more revenue than retextures. Just look at Nexus and the top voted mod right now even though that'll change soon.

And rumor has it Elianora is in CC. Well I'll be damn. Sure never would of expected that... And here's what's funny that I came to conclusions why there's no credit on CC mods by the authors. I figured modders like Elianora who have a patreon account would be in this CC bandwagon and, I thought for a moment that maybe they were given the option to not have credits displayed for their own safety. Considering if this were to be true, modders like Elianora would be getting paid by Beth and her snowflake fans who support her jobless lazy ass through patreon.

[ritualclarity]

5 hours ago, endgameaddiction said:

Bethesda thinks so backwards. I would of thought someone like Gopher would of been in on CC. Anime follower mods would generate more revenue than retextures. Just look at Nexus and the top voted mod right now even though that'll change soon.

And rumor has it Elianora is in CC. Well I'll be damn. Sure never would of expected that... And here's what's funny that I came to conclusions why there's no credit on CC mods by the authors. I figured modders like Elianora who have a patreon account would be in this CC bandwagon and, I thought for a moment that maybe they were given the option to not have credits displayed for their own safety. Considering if this were to be true, modders like Elianora would be getting paid by Beth and her snowflake fans who support her jobless lazy ass through patreon.

Gopher was on the CC bandwagon. It wasn't until the bait and switch that was done that he lost his mind. Remember the comments of "DLC sized"? What we didn't realize is we were thinking of large ones not the size of the horse armor in Oblivion days. They are doing exactly what they stated, however, they misslead everybody. There double speak is epic. Many "fan boys" have lost their mind for various reasons with the final result of this project he isn't alone in this matter.

Shame of it is/was is that they could have done something great with this. Like much of other things they have done, great opportunities are literately fucked over in the worst way each and every time. For example, increase the size of the CC content max, not to auto download so that someone from fucking reddit or elesewhere could "legally" create a esp to access the content which was essentially give away for free (forced download) A bit of money up front while working on the mod and if the author is successful in the CC field they could be offered an elevated position where they get some sort of royalties. A small percentage of the sales, not much but very likely more than they could get from Patrion. (3~5% of sales after x %) or other changes. Any improvement on what they did would have been much better than this.

 

[Guest]

The 2015 paid mods fiasco was a mist opportunity. It was launched on April 24, 2015 if I'm not mistaken. And in November was the when Fallout 4 was officially released. They could of easily pushed paid mods shortly after Fallout 4 not long after the Preorders and early sales. Backlash? Wouldn't have mattered since they already got their revenue by then since preorders and early sales are what matter the most. This wouldn't have really harmed their sales because despite that Fallout 4 was a flop, people are still shivering and grinding their teeth in hope that TES6 won't become streamlined as bad as Fallout 4. All Bethesda has to do is apply the proper footage when marketing, only showing what people actually want to see, unlike in Fallout 4 where they showed us beforehand the voiced character and shitty dialogue system leaving everyone questioning whether this was going to be a good or bad idea despite that some of us saw this already as a bad thing, and TES6 would be another big hit.

I agree that it was a mist opportunity with Creation Club. This was an awful attempt to convince people to buy into microtransaction. However, it's not the end, nor will they stop. Eventually if they really want Creation Club to be taken serious, they'll need to reevaluate their stance and consider taking in large size mods that add real content (or consider allowing those absurd mods that nearly everyone on Nexus gets a boner over) to mod users if they want this to be successful on PC. Forget about the CC modders receiving a one time payment. If they allow high quality mods like Bruma (it doesn't even have to be that large of a project), people will give into it. But at this rate, they aren't going to make much, if anything at all. Definitely not on the PC side, anyways.

[Doublezero]

1 hour ago, endgameaddiction said:

Eventually if they really want Creation Club to be taken serious, they'll need to reevaluate their stance and consider taking in large size mods that add real content (or consider allowing those absurd mods that nearly everyone on Nexus gets a boner over) to mod users if they want this to be successful on PC.

Wont happen. Bethesda doesn't want to Q&A large mods as they're bound to have a ton of bugs as well as platform specific bugs that would need to be ironed out. And then there's the issue the with mod size limit that's on consoles which some speculate is the reason why they shove all of the meshes and textures for Creation Club mods onto the user's hard drive during updates.

Bethesda is stupid. They don't understand why mods flourished on the PC and now they're trying to make them available on closed systems that has limitations and restrictions.

[bjornk]

The modding scene for Bethesda games has been poisoned by Bethesda's greed and doomed to diminish and fade away, not to mention their RPGs have been getting shallower and shallower, more streamlined, more dumbed down with every new title. I highly doubt that they will ever recover. It may be kind of amusing for some to watch their downfall, but we have yet to see a new developer to replace them with similar type of games of better quality and I don't think that's very likely either. Sounds quite depressing, but the industry today seems to have very little passion left for creating the type of games I've always dreamed of for decades.

[Guest]

@Doublezero

I guess you're right. Looking at this from any angle just points to failure. I'm just too skeptical to believe CC will die off.

 

@bjornk

I was the same way when I seen what they did with Fallout 4. They literally killed the franchise that I once loved.

This is why I'm hoping CDPR will allow us to mod Cyberpunk 2077. Odds are they might since Witcher 3 can be modded, but nothing as close to Fallout and The Elders Scroll. But it's a start. Because at least in CP2077, you aren't stuck playing a fixed character and they aren't forcing the story down your throat like Bethesda did with Fallout 4.

[Kendo 2]

Well, I've been thinking about Bethesda's claim that they own anything made to work with FO4/SkyrimSE (the EULAs are basically the same to allow for console modding and Bethesda.net as curator).  Those EULAs along with the Creation Club make it very clear that Bethesda doesn't understand modding or IP law.

First, the Creation Club installing paid content files without charging for them.  They're doing things backwards.  When paid mods first appeared in 2015 I came up with a plan to beat Bethesda at their own game and legally charge for mods.  My idea was to have the Bethesda IP free to access.  Their proprietary software and code (esps/esms) would be free for the taking.  But original meshes and textures would be behind a paywall and protected by a license.  Download the files behind the pay wall and the license is binding.  And there's dick-all Bethesda could do since nothing they own (or any derivatives) would be charged for.  The 3d content is what's valuable, not their bullshit esps/esms.

Second, Bethesda thinks they own it all.  By their standard set by the EULAs if someone makes original meshes and associated textures and adapts them to work with FO4/SkyrimSE then 'they own it'.  Okay.  Sure they own that iteration, have fun with it.  What they do not own is the meshes and textures themselves.  If I make a flower pot in Blender and paint textures they belong to me.  As they are I can adapt them to work with Minecraft, GTA, Sims4, Witcher3, GOW, whatever.  If I license the flower pot meshes and textures then I REALLY own it in a binding and legal sense.  So, I make the flower pot work with FO4 and Bethesda owns that incarnation.  Nothing is stopping me from using the mesh/texture set for another game, since I hold the IP and license.  And nothing could stop me from submitting the flower pot to the Creation Club and then uploading my own version somewhere else for free...since I own the licensed IP, not Bethesda.  All they could do is file a DMCA takedown and stall the inevitable republishing once I provide proof that I own the licensed IP.  You'd only be able to burn Bethesda once with this, but still...they'd have paid for the dev cycle on the Creation Club only to realize they'd been legally outmaneuvered.

[ritualclarity]

9 hours ago, Doublezero said:

Wont happen. Bethesda doesn't want to Q&A large mods as they're bound to have a ton of bugs as well as platform specific bugs that would need to be ironed out. And then there's the issue the with mod size limit that's on consoles which some speculate is the reason why they shove all of the meshes and textures for Creation Club mods onto the user's hard drive during updates.

Bethesda is stupid. They don't understand why mods flourished on the PC and now they're trying to make them available on closed systems that has limitations and restrictions.

They could easily name or catagorize the mods to specific platform (in the case above to PC) due to the ability to hold larger contents etc, etc. Nobody states that they have to have the same mod for all three or more (in the future) editions. They are the ones that are trying to do this and it won't work well. They will starve the PC market.... causing the drive to create mods to diminish and in the end harm their bottom line by lowering the interest in future Bethesda games except from console gamers which most aren't (that is dedicated) skilled in modding and if they are, they aren't' interested.

There is great interest in Fallout NV and Skyrim not becuase of consoles but because of the back end scripting being so mature. (Extention and other tools) Without PC development to drive that the mods and interest will be lower IMO. The case in point is Skyrim SE and Fallout 4. It is nowhere near where FNV, Skyrim was at this time in its release.

[Doublezero]

37 minutes ago, ritualclarity said:

They could easily name or catagorize the mods to specific platform (in the case above to PC) due to the ability to hold larger contents etc, etc. Nobody states that they have to have the same mod for all three or more (in the future) editions.

They can but they won't. They want the mods to be available for every possible platform for maximum profits. Plus, we saw how Playstation 3 owners reacted when they didn't get the Skyrim DLCs at the same time as the Xbox 360 and Playstation 4 owners when Sony rejected mods the first time around.

I don't see Creation Club by itself hurting PC modding unless they allow stolen assets in mods. My biggest concern is that it becomes extremely successful and Bethesda decides to release the Creation Kit only for modders who are accepted in the Creation Club for future games. I'm not convinced that will happen yet. I don't see it being successful for them.

[Doublezero]

 

[ritualclarity]

3 hours ago, Doublezero said:

They can but they won't. They want the mods to be available for every possible platform for maximum profits. Plus, we saw how Playstation 3 owners reacted when they didn't get the Skyrim DLCs at the same time as the Xbox 360 and Playstation 4 owners when Sony rejected mods the first time around.

I don't see Creation Club by itself hurting PC modding unless they allow stolen assets in mods. My biggest concern is that it becomes extremely successful and Bethesda decides to release the Creation Kit only for modders who are accepted in the Creation Club for future games. I'm not convinced that will happen yet. I don't see it being successful for them.

I don't see them only releasing the CC for those accepted into the Creation Club. However, based on what they have done, this might be the case if they get really stupid. I do see them only releasing the CK for those that belong to their Site/Club etc and are members.

As for the difference. Honestly it isn't the fault of Bethesda (one of the few times it isn't) that there is a limit for Xbox, or a stronger one for Play Station. There are easy ways around this aspect. In reality I suspect even if they had larger record counts and allowed true "DLC Sized" content which wouldn't fit on the consoles, there will be a plenitude of simple armor mods or small groups of armor mods. There are people on the mod sites for them that make an real effort to get their stuff on Xbox and even try to address their customers. If this was done correctly with some small royalties, the bug fixes and even smaller markets like Sony's Playstation would be covered. Think of it this way. You created many single armors. If you got a few cents for 1000's of armors that would really add up in time for something you were already creating for another, yet larger mod. It is a simple thing to pull some of the best armors and other content out to give to the consoles. The only way for them (Bethesda) to really make this a success and really make a dent is to address the PC market directly and allow the "chips to fall where they may".

In time and with this being certified content from Bethesda (them taking responsibility for it) Sony might indeed open up more availability for this. after all it is "official content". Maybe not now on the current system. There might be some technical issue with this hardware/software wise however, very possible going forward. It is only going to benifit Sony (and Xbox) to open up to more of this type of content and become more flexible. They have a large share of the market and growing by the day. That combined with the push to be able to be cross platform for games then you have essentially the ability to have freedom for whichever hardware selection you choose from consoles or PCs and be able to play the games. Ideally this would be the next step in the direction for consoles.

 

[Guest]

I agree that CC doesn't really hurt the PC community except for those CC modders thinking they are going to actually make money out of it. And lets be real, most people don't care about the fact that modders aren't being paid fairly. I certainly don't. Because I certainly don't care about them getting paid at all. It's always been about the greed and calling it out. It's been about shedding light on how greedy they are and their ambition pushing their selfishness to the point that they will use divide and conquer to achieve their goal. It's the threat that could have consequences for modding as a whole. If it's just a problem with only Bethesda, I'm certainly okay with the destruction of its own community. But if it's going to plague other games, than it's a problem. But even then I have reached a point where I don't even care. It gets old when game developers constantly screw over their fans. I left Square Enix and have never bought any of their products a long as time ago. And I committed myself to do the same with Bethesda. My concern is the plague reaching to game developers that I do care about like CDPR. However, with the way they run the show, it's highly unlikely. They give out DLCs for free. But that's not to say that in the future they won't change. All it takes is new management. Someone with that greedy mentality. One can only hope that it never happens. I just hope that CDPR takes into account what's going on with Bethesda and the destruction of their fanbase and considers allowing us to mod their games further than you can with Witcher 3. As I've read years back that the fans were disappointed that the toolkit they got wasn't what they were promised.

 

 

[ritualclarity]

One way to keep CDPR true to its origin is to constantly tell the world how much you love the company, its products and its culture. Doing this and keeping them informed of the feelings of the vast majority of their customer base would help in my opinion. so long as the management team is in effect there I believe they will continue to do what they do the way they do it. I don't have delusions, I know there will be games that aren't quite what I want or might be below expectations, however, they have had this in the past and they have improved game, over game, over game and show a constant striving to better themselves. So if something is lower than expected or there are issues, this shows through that they are honest and have integrity and will strive to do better and better as time goes on. This is probably one of the best aspects a company can show their consumers.

I am getting a bit concerned with their growth and more dev teams, as much as I am getting excited at the aspect that there will be more selection of games and they will come faster and faster. My concern is the aspect of growth does make management a challenge as the current group of leaders get thinned out. I truly hope that they hire the right people and develop them properly to extend the same culture and not thin it out. Bethesda in its early days of Morrowwind etc, had this to some degree or another and as they grew they lost touch and once other companies took over... it was gone. It is difficult to keep the spark going in situations like that.  .If they can do this... then CDPR is going to be great for a very, very long time.

[Guest]

When they played this song in the intro to their teaser, I thought it was spot on because people finally got over the crying for any news on Fallout 4.

But now when I see the nonstop bitching about how bad Fallout 4 was, and now with this Creation Club. I just listen to it and laugh because it's all over, but the crying.

[Kendo 2]

Gopher, MattyPlays, EpicNate and some others are starting to back pedal now.  My guesses are; their videos critical of Bethesda are being demonetized, or their fanboy subscriber base is in open revolt and the fountain of Paetron money has slowed down to a trickle.

[bjornk]

1 hour ago, endgameaddiction said:

But now when I see the nonstop bitching about how bad Fallout 4 was, and now with this Creation Club. I just listen to it and laugh because it's all over, but the crying.

Well, I've always interpreted it as a lament for the death of Fallout at the hands of Bethesda. 

[Guest]

Yeah, that's another way to look at it. It almost feels intentional.