bethesda Bethesda announces "Creation Club" (Paid Mods)

[Guest]

Lets face it, gamers make one of the worst consumers of all. Doesn't matter what platform they're on. The nonstop support for these companies who dick us over never stops. There are us who resist, but we're only a very small number in comparison to the amount of fans who never stop their support. And Bethesda had this all planned out after their first attempt at paid mods. BethNet was just the start of it. Console mods is what made it secure. Creation Club isn't going anywhere. Above all else, why was it up to Bethesda to make it happen? You know, console mods. I seriously doubt it was done with good intentions. Nothing they do is done with good intentions. It's always comes with a cost. "Mods will still be free" says Pete Hides with as cheesy smile and his fingers crossed behind his back. "But to what extent?" says the skeptical Beth fan. "it just works, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" yells Todd Howard.

If by the time Creation Club becomes successful, I wouldn't be surprised if the next TES and Fallout were console exclusives. It's very clear that at this point they don't give two fucks about the PC community. And that's one of the reasons why I despise the fuck out Bethesda. It was the PC community that got them the fame they have now and Bethesda turned their backs on them long ago ever since they started favoring console systems and giving the PC users the dumb down version of each title. The moment I started seeing how they really were I never for one second believed the creation kit was released on their behalf for the intent purpose of modding but rather the PC community patching up their broken piece of shit for games. They just threw around the word "modding" like they do "created content" to make it seem pretty. Sure, you CAN mod the living hell out of their games, but it came with that cost. What if the PC community decided to just opt out and get a refund instead? What would have happened then?

And seeing how the modding community vastly grew in popularity, it brought a lot of attention to the corporate greed and they saw the perfect opportunity to take advantage of it to make profit. But at this point, they can make due without the PC community and just focus their attention on selling paid mods through microtransaction to the console community because they will fall for it. Whether they want to or not. Their only choices are to ditch console systems, which is highly a doubt. Or vote with their wallet, which is highly a doubt as well.

For the PC community, "We've got money to make. Either deal with it, or fuck off, bruh." -Bethesda

And none of this Creation Club/Paid Mods matters to me. It only matters if it becomes a spreading disease among other game developers. Especially ones that I like. Then it becomes a problem. And I don't even know whether to give a crap or not anymore. I mean a side of me is concerned this disease will spread to more game developers, and another side of me just doesn't give a damn where the game industry ends up. I'm at a point where it matters all the same. I've already kissed other game developers good bye in the past and Bethesda is the recent one on that list. it's up to CDPR to convince me at this point. If they don't, it's time for me to move on. It's not the end of the world. Besides, life has been missing me anyways.

meh. I'm bummed out. Going back to my safe space if you'll excuse me.

[Kendo 2]

If you posted anything at LL about mod theft or them using assets without permission the staff there won't do anything about it; especially if it is a CBBE mod.  They have entire threads devoted to 'look what I stole from this Asian website and converted with OutfitStudio'.  The staff knows, Ashal knows...and they don't fucking care.  And if CPU sees your post he'll delete it.  He's cool like that.

[ritualclarity]

It seems as if at least that person was willing to consider it if the asset was pointed out. The rest of the people chiming in and giving crap or bullshit is nothing but a waste of time. Nothing to worry about or even concern yourself with. They likely have no life and going on on forums and posting crap is the only outlet and socialization they have. It is really kind of sad.

 

[Guest]

I was poking fun at this person calling me out by making it my sig. But they have no idea that this is actually copyright infringement and if Bethesda saw it, they could easily put a lawsuit on Dark0ne backing him in a corner. So even if I'm looked at like a villain, it doesn't matter to me. I normally raise this kind of attention to modders when either 1) their using assets from a friend of mine without permission, or 2) they are hanging themselves without even knowing it, like in this case. As for the original author who converted it to bodyslide and uploaded it to Nexus, I already warned him and he chose to ignore it. I can care less if he gets banned. And the funny part is that it's on LL as well. I knew all along and kept my mouth shut while I still held an account there because I was already sick of that place.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Guest

[bjornk]

Well, someone posted Fallout 2 Restoration Project on Nexus without Killap's permission a few years ago. Don't know who deleted it, but my message pointing it out the issue disappeared shortly after. The pirated mod is still there and nobody seems to give a fuck about it. I suppose that's one good reason not to invest excessive amount of your time for making mods, unless you're making them for yourself...

[ritualclarity]

My thoughts on mods which fits in the Bethesda Universe where few seem to respect others work anymore.

• Spoiler

   

  • You should be making them for yourself in the first place.
  • Keep in mind someone might steal some of your work but those that really matter, know they are lying sacks of shit and assholes so in the long run they lose. Newbies or casual modders won't but they also don't really matter in this issue IMO. They just come and get their mods and leave. Your fellow mod authors will find out if you are dishonest. Trust me. I have adopted and have access to loads of content (some uploaded with permission and/or  respect toward the original authors when permissions just isn't possible). I am generally well respected and can get assistance, assets and other things easily from many authors even those I don't know that well. It is because I am not a dick/asshole taking short cuts.
  • Upload to the "community" with the mentality that you are "giving" this work you did for the use of fellow gamers. Anything that has been shared has a serious risk of being copied, altered, changed, or downright stolen. This is something you need to accept and look above. In the end people will figure out the true colors of those jerks and assholes and they will loose in the end. Disclaimer: this is related to people who are fellow active modders with many hours of mod content creation under their belt.
  • Focus on those individuals that really matter. Your fellow associates on the forums that you frequent. Make heavy use of PM and other communications available on that site to keep in contact and regular communication (if possible) for reliable news and updates. I regularly do this and usually learn things that most moderators (on other sites) try so very hard to erase or hide.

   

   

The issue brought up above about mod theft.

Spoiler

To anyone reading this... we at NSFWmods take theft seriously. There are several rules in our very small rules sections on  this very subject. We will not tolerate this. At times it might be difficult to prove theft but we will try our best to be fair and responsible. We don't believe in this crap and don't want mod authors here that resort to theft to create content. It just isn't worth the drama.  Those found to be intentionally uploading stolen content will be dealt with severely.

Now for a post related to the actual subject matter

I  was mistaken earlier r/t the 7.99 DLC. It was confusing to me at least. Apparently that is just extra credits you can buy. Not required. Sorry for the error.

So they are giving you 100 of their "Credits' and have slashed many of the pricing of their products just a short time after starting the project (which must really suck badly for those early adopters )  They even have "free" items there for you to download and nobody has  a clue how long it will be for. Is it for a short time, going to be the permanent price going forward for those items. Is this going to be the way the do future items? Keep it up for a month or so then put them on sale later?

 

 

 

[Doublezero]

Quote

Bethesda May Not Be Able to Fix the Creation Club’s Bloatware Problem

You may not have heard, but the Creation Club isn’t very popular. As Bethesda’s latest attempt to insert paid mods into the industry, the Creation Club is rife with bugs, scrambling people’s mods, and further tarnishing Bethesda’s dwindling reputation.

But one of the Creation Club’s most glaring problems affects players whether they use it or not. When the Creation Club was released, players quickly discovered it was downloading every single mod onto their hard drives whether they purchased them or not, taking up precious bandwidth in the process. If you own FALLOUT 4 and have a connection to the internet, this probably already happened to you.

Bethesda’s response to the matter is raising eyebrows, leaving many to wonder if the problem can even be fixed. On the official forums, Bethesda’s community manager “Cartogriffi” had this to say on the matter:

Quote

“This was a requirement for some platforms and how Creation Club needed to work. Most other games that offer similar content do the same. We realize this is a frustration point for players, and we are working on a solution to change the way this functions. On the PC, this will not happen with Skyrim Special Edition, and future releases for Fallout 4.”

In short, Bethesda is planning on fixing this problem on the PC, but the Creation Club can’t work on “certain platforms” without it. So what does this mean? Well, when you cut through all the PR-speak, Bethesda is admitting that they can’t fix the problem on consoles, at least not without major restructuring from both themselves and the console manufacturers. Sure, they’re promising to fix this on PC, but the Creation Club isn’t geared toward PC-users in the first place.

The core of this issue is for those who play on console, where hard drive space is limited and precious as it is. Based on this statement, it feels like Bethesda is shrugging their shoulders and giving up. For now, if you own FALLOUT 4, your console will continue to download every single mod released on the Creation Club without your consent. In the words of one forum-goer, Bethesda can’t find a way “out of their self-made quagmire.”

Now, to be fair, the vagueness of this statement leaves room for future changes. Bethesda never goes into specifics on which platforms they’ll be fixing. They also claim that the hard drive bloat was due to requirements on “certain platforms.” Are these requirements still in place? Is there no way to circumvent them? If so, what sort of time and resources are necessary to do so?

We can only parse this statement so much, however. I’m trying my best to dissect the vague words of a company that isn’t known for its clarity or honesty. Until further notice, it seems Bethesda has no plans on fixing this problem where it matters most.

The Point

If this doesn’t get fixed, it will be the death knell of the Creation Club. As of now, the Creation Club consists of skins, gear, and various items that can easily be found for free online. But when Bethesda pitched this program, they promised story-driven questlines and significant changes to the game. If they can’t stop clogging our consoles with every mod, this will be impossible. Imagine your hard drive filled with several expansion-sized mods you can’t even access without paying. It’s completely untenable.

For that matter, won’t that happen regardless? Every mod, no matter how small, will continue to fill up our hard drives. Through sheer attrition, the Creation Club will slowly consume our consoles. I don’t see how long that can last without Microsoft and Sony stepping in.

In the midst of all this vitriol, there comes a point where we have to ask: what is Bethesda thinking? I don’t mean that simply as an insult, nor am I questioning their ethically shady but logically sound business practices. I’m very literally wondering what their thought process is.

The Creation Club is a fully developed system that Bethesda must have been working on for quite some time. It was mired in controversy long before it even released, and Bethesda must have known they needed to bring their A-game to change people’s perception of it. At what point did they think forcing players to download their bloatware would be a good idea? How could they not know this would happen?

We’ve reached out to Bethesda for a statement, but did not receive a response.

https://comicsverse.com/bethesda-may-not-able-fix-creation-clubs-bloatware-problem/

[Doublezero]

Quote

Does FALLOUT 4’s Season Pass Include Creation Club Content?

Bethesda can’t seem to catch a break this month. Whether they’re backtracking on potential releases, putting bloatware on your hard drive, or scrambling your mods, they can’t stop shooting themselves in the foot. We’ve been talking about Bethesda’s screw-ups a lot lately, and it’s not for lack of heart.

I grew up with these games. They’ve been part of my life for the majority of it. I love the worlds of FALLOUT and THE ELDER SCROLLS, and I want to see these IPs move forward and improve. But it seems the only thing holding Bethesda back is itself.

What Happened

Amidst the fallout of the Creation Club, Bethesda’s paid mod program, players quickly noticed a glaring loophole within the system.

According to the fine print, season pass holders will receive all future downloadable content (DLC) for the game, and there are absolutely no caveats or limitations listed. With this in mind, many argue the Creation Club’s content should be free for season pass holders.

Now, of course, this wasn’t Bethesda’s intent. They would never implement their paid mod program if they knew a significant portion of their playerbase would get everything for free. That being said, they left very little room for ambiguity here.

When the Creation Club released, it was met with widespread criticism from both fans and journalists. Pete Hines, Bethesda’s rather infamous PR executive, weighed in on the controversy early on. He insisted that Creation Club content should be considered “mini-dlc” as opposed to “paid mods.”

Putting aside the semantic nonsense of this statement, it only fuels the argument that this content should be covered under the season pass. So essentially, Bethesda attempted to back out of one controversy only to fall into another.

Bethesda’s Response is Nonsensical

So what does this mean for the consumer? Well, as of now not much.

Bethesda more or less went quiet since the Creation Club released. Aside from a brief tweet from Hines, their only statements on the matter are coming from their support team, which made it clear the season pass would not be honored from here on out. In an ongoing back and forth between a forum-goer and the support center, Bethesda claims that:

Quote

“[The] Creation Club itself is free. However, players will need to buy credits from the Creation Club interface to purchase creations for their game.”

This statement is bizarre, as it completely side-steps the issue. It doesn’t matter whether or not the Creation Club is free. What matters is the “mini-dlc” within it. In a slew of emails from various representatives, Bethesda’s argument continued to devolve. They went on to claim that the Season Pass was only meant to cover six pieces of dlc.

In other words, everything that isn’t the Creation Club. According to Bethesda, they chose not to disclose this information to avoid “spoilers.” The statement goes on to say that they informed everyone of the limits of the Season Pass once these content packs were released.

So in short, they intentionally lied to consumers, only to reveal the truth long after they bought the product.

How Should We Respond?

When a group screws up like this, it’s only a matter of time before threats of legal action develop. We’ve talked about this before, but consumer protection laws get pretty complicated in the digital age. Things like video games, online contracts, and the internet, in general, are still relatively new. As a result, there’s a lot of a legal grey area and not a lot of legal precedent.

It’s also worth noting that consumer protection laws are pretty weak in the US. Because of this, it’s doubtful Americans could take up legal action against Bethesda. The EU is a different story, however. In Europe, courts often side with consumers on these issues, especially when it comes to unclear or unfair contract terms. Still, are the time, effort, and resources necessary to form a lawsuit worth the cost of a season pass? That’s not for me to decide.

The Point

Look, I’m of two minds here. Morality aside, I think it’s a bit naive to think season pass holders will ever receive this content for free. It’s clear Bethesda never intended for the season pass to include everything, despite their own words. Regardless of what’s right, American players don’t have much of a case against Bethesda, and it’s more trouble than it’s worth to organize a lawsuit in the EU over a season pass.

Still, this doesn’t excuse Bethesda’s shady, craven behavior, which is yet another blow to their floundering reputation. It’s further evidence of how blatantly sloppy and short-sighted this company seems to be.  Their repeated, desperate attempts to introduce paid mods to the industry are eroding whatever goodwill they had left.

What was once a spunky, passionate, if overly-ambitious company, has quickly become another example of the avarice and bumbling incompetence that is all too common in this industry. At the end of the day, this episode gave us a glimpse into Bethesda’s internal workings, and I don’t like what I’m seeing.

https://comicsverse.com/fallout-4s-season-pass-include-creation-club-content/

[ritualclarity]

^ Ninja'd...

LOL.

They keep this up someone is going to class action law suit their ass. If not in the US in Europe... They'd deserve it. Everything they have done is half assed (and not the good half :P)

If Bethesda was in a fairy tale and captured the golden goose... they'd cook it up for Tuesday dinner... because they would be too stupid to realize that they would be able to make more and do better just collecting the eggs. Any idea that they have come up with... and tried to implement they have done in the worst possible way.

[Kendo 2]

This is GRAND!!!  Whadda hoot!  FINALLY someone is saying 'Hey, your license says this but you're saying something else.  This shit is not what I agreed to.'

[ritualclarity]

They love twisting their words to give people a different impression from what they intend, in order to mislead them. It would be hilarious if they screwed up and have to give all the CC content over. I wonder if Europe or another country declared that they were misleading if it would make it easier for the US and the rest to get the same.

[Doublezero]

They really blew an opportunity for some positive press if they had allowed season pass users to download mods for free. Instead they showed everyone how greedy they are. Good going Bethesda.

[Kendo 2]

2 hours ago, Doublezero said:

They really blew an opportunity for some positive press if they had allowed season pass users to download mods for free. Instead they showed everyone how greedy they are. Good going Bethesda.

Yeah, that would have been the kind of good PR you can't buy and it would have probably salvaged their reputation.  I'm glad they didn't think of it.

And it would have also been a great marketing ploy for their next game and season passes; people would have bought them assuming they would get free Creation Club content.

[ritualclarity]

Hell they could offer quite a bit more CC credits for those that did buy the Season Pass as a "thank you" for their purchase. 1000 credits as opposed to the 100 that they are giving to non season pass customers. That would also be a good thing to add to the next game which would have CC capabilities... 1000 or so credits added right off the top. That combined with more reasonable pricing (which they are getting closer to) and some real content like was promised (DLC sized content) and they would have a much better presence in the gaming community. There are fans of the old way and old games that just won't like the future games since they are changing the formula for their creation and I doubt that will ever change since they are trying to become more attractive to the more casual gamer. One of the main detractors of Witcher is the fact is it is "hard" for the main stream gamer. Many that bought Witcher III soon realized their disappointment at the complexity and difficulty of the game and the very large learning curve required. I wish that Bethesda would go back to the original or at least near the original forumla and only fixed the issue (like the shooting mechanics which is stated as much improved in the recent Fallout 4) and kept it at that. They are a large gaming company and can create new IP which they can develop for their new customer base that they are trying to attract (more casual gamers/console gamers etc) and create a story that they like and love. Deviating from the formula of a very successful gaming IP is not a good idea. Just ask the Developer of MEA   That was a shit storm of issues and problems but.. had it only been technical they would have had themselves bitch slapped by the customers and reviewers and after they fixed it... people would have still stated that they would recommend the game (because it had the same depth of story and character development which was what made the franchise so successful. Take a look at the ending of Mass Effect III and the shit storm that happened... the game still sold a metric shit ton of games even with that farce... There was most of the formula just bad choices in the ending and not too many or major tech issues that were part of MEA upon release.

[Kendo 2]

Being how I am (a dick) I decided to do some real time number crunching and analytics on Bethesda's performance.  The litmus test I chose was STEAM since that's where the majority of people get Bethesda games and STEAM/Valves tracks users.  Aaand here we go...

Over the last 30 days:

FO4 down -0.46%
Skyrim down -7.57%
New Vegas up +9.68%
FO3 up +3.11%

So, according to THE MARKET (not my spin on things, critical thinker 'hate', or any other excuse the fanboys at Nexus and LL want to pull out of their asses) FO4 is a SHIT GAME and has been tanking for over a year.  And that was BEFORE the Creation Club, which was intended to give the game a longer life span...and make money with microtransactions in the process.  The numbers for Skyrim aren't much better BUT that player base is holding somewhat steady at around 27,500 active players each month (over the last 6 months).

What I find interesting is the renewed player base for New Vegas.  Looking at the percentages, people have already turned their backs on FO4 and are returning to New Vegas (a game that's 7 yrs old and running on a dinosaur engine).  That IS my spin on things since I'm not omniscient.

My point is Bethesda is worrying about the wrong thing.  The are trying to make money off of microtransactions for a game people aren't playing.  And it won't be any different when they roll out the Creation Club for Skyrim64bit.  No one's fucking playing it and that means modders aren't making content for it like they are for the 32bit version.

I guess I need to dust off my unreleased NV/FO3 stuff and submit it....NAH.  Fuck Bethesda.

[Guest]

And out rolls another update. One person (so far) has claimed it broke F4SE again. At this rate as CC grows more and more over time, I'm certain updates will be much more frequent. That's not good for the script extender team. Especially when they'll have to work on constantly updating SSE as well when CC is implemented. And imagine the games to come? It's going to be a burden keeping up with all these games. Don't see a bright future for modding unless a mod is released to disable CC updating completely.

[ritualclarity]

14 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

Being how I am (a dick) I decided to do some real time number crunching and analytics on Bethesda's performance.  The litmus test I chose was STEAM since that's where the majority of people get Bethesda games and STEAM/Valves tracks users.  Aaand here we go...

Over the last 30 days:

FO4 down -0.46%
Skyrim down -7.57%
New Vegas up +9.68%
FO3 up +3.11%

So, according to THE MARKET (not my spin on things, critical thinker 'hate', or any other excuse the fanboys at Nexus and LL want to pull out of their asses) FO4 is a SHIT GAME and has been tanking for over a year.  And that was BEFORE the Creation Club, which was intended to give the game a longer life span...and make money with microtransactions in the process.  The numbers for Skyrim aren't much better BUT that player base is holding somewhat steady at around 27,500 active players each month (over the last 6 months).

What I find interesting is the renewed player base for New Vegas.  Looking at the percentages, people have already turned their backs on FO4 and are returning to New Vegas (a game that's 7 yrs old and running on a dinosaur engine).  That IS my spin on things since I'm not omniscient.

My point is Bethesda is worrying about the wrong thing.  The are trying to make money off of microtransactions for a game people aren't playing.  And it won't be any different when they roll out the Creation Club for Skyrim64bit.  No one's fucking playing it and that means modders aren't making content for it like they are for the 32bit version.

I guess I need to dust off my unreleased NV/FO3 stuff and submit it....NAH.  Fuck Bethesda.

That is in line with my interest. I am more interested in Fallout NV and Fallout 3 over Fallout 4 even with the "dinosaur engine." One of of the issues might be that the new Creation Club has screwed over the script extender and apparently yet again. Might happen each update. They are stepping on the mod content creators and that will not do well for the game when it was already negatively received and has already difficulty in getting the necessary tools to bring the game to the next level. To provide the needed tools to create the more advanced mods that made Skyrim 32bit and FNV so popular. 

I am not omniscient either but I suspect the difference between FNV and F03 is related to the maturity of the scripting engine. It is much more developed than that in the FO3 and thus more development for it.

I agree with the assessment r/t Skyrim 64bit. It just isn't there and with the CC coming to that as well (assume that it will screw up the script extender as well) won't do it any favors either.

However, I would like to see some of your unreleased NV/FO3 stuff (well I have seen it and have some but... I digress) and submit it here. While at it I believe you have some nice content for Skyrim 32bit as well. you know what I am talking about. If you have it and it is fully functional why not release it? Don't think so much of it as fucking Bethesda.. but more helping the site (need an angel emoticon :P) However, I can't really blame you.

[Doublezero]

 

[Kendo 2]

And Bethesda breaks Skyrim64bit just like the did for FO4.  Glad I never updated my somewhat reliable Skyrim32bit.

[ritualclarity]

52 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

And Bethesda breaks Skyrim64bit just like the did for FO4.  Glad I never updated my somewhat reliable Skyrim32bit.

If you did, you would have both. 32 and 64 bit. So far as I can tell this recent change hasn't fucked up my 32bit Skyrim. Can someone with a heavy modified 32bit Skyrim confirm?

[ritualclarity]

1 hour ago, Doublezero said:

 

Seriously... Fuck them. I mean WTF.. all the complaints about Fallout 4 and the content and how they are looking like money grabbers and they come up with shit for their introduction of this on Skyrim? That is just plain stupid. They could have won so much if they had only waited and actually had something worth wile in content. Hell it could be content that some might not like but serious content none the less.

[Guest]

@ritualclarity

This shouldn't have any affiliation with classic Skyrim whatsoever. All should be fine. Worst case scenario would be to wait it out and see if anyone reports on it.

 

 

So survival mode is a feature one must pay. This just gets better and better. Again, it would be funny to see Bethesda include all the features that made Fallout a great series put back in for Fallout 4 and behind a pay wall.

It's very clear they don't care about the opinions and feelings of the PC community. They won the war.

I really can't wait for CDPR to crush Bethesda with their new IP.

[Doublezero]

Behold the future for Bethesda titles; barebone games where you have spend extra to get the full experience.

 

 

 

[Guest]

 

[Doublezero]

LOL! I knew survival mode was going to be $15!

I should've watch the video first. It's more like $8 but you have to buy $15 worth of Bethesda bucks just to purchase the mod.